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  • i have just finished the last episode and it's 5 am.

    i can't understand why didn't nick tell everyone what had happened in God knows what dimension was that? i mean, you saw them dying and you didn't take the time to talk about that? i would've liked to see that discussion.

    and i am very happy that Diana and Kelly work with their parents but why on earth did Diana said that they've "got wesens to kill"? now they kill wesens for fun or what?

    and does anybody know how to get over this 'breakup'?

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    • I don't think they kill wesen for fun, that would go against six whole years of this show and what aired for 123 episodes. Diana's probably being cocky, we've seen her exhibit that kind of attitude since she returned in S5 where she thinks nothing of killing people or what she views as "playing" when it's really torture. It would be more concerning if Nick  or even Kelly that had said it but it wasn't either of them and I guess Diana isn't fully rehabilitated from her flippant attitude where it concerns matters of life and death. 

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    • ""Still gonna stand by the idea that Nick only held onto Adalind because he was convinced that Juliette wants nothing to do with him and that Adalind gave him the family he dreamed of having with Juliette in the first place. Take out Kelly of the equation, and Nick and Adalind never would have even saw each other in that light.""

      The series seems to point in that direction, doesn't it? Even when he and Eve were in the other world, Nick never talked about how much better his life was was without Juliette. Instead, she was the one who told him that she didn't want to go back to her old life. It was only after that that he stated he wanted Adalind back.

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    • they just ran out of time and besides talking about it would have shown that nick was stronger alone and didn't really need anyone , which goes to show of dismal the finale was.

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    • 209.181.155.40 wrote:
      ""Still gonna stand by the idea that Nick only held onto Adalind because he was convinced that Juliette wants nothing to do with him and that Adalind gave him the family he dreamed of having with Juliette in the first place. Take out Kelly of the equation, and Nick and Adalind never would have even saw each other in that light.""


      In view of the perilous situation Nick and Eve were in, it's astonishing that they would even have such a conversation. I'm not so certain at that point he was convinced that Eve wanted nothing to do with him. It seems somewhere deep down, Nick must have been thinking that she might want to have a lot to do with him. 

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    • 209.181.155.40 wrote:
      ""Still gonna stand by the idea that Nick only held onto Adalind because he was convinced that Juliette wants nothing to do with him and that Adalind gave him the family he dreamed of having with Juliette in the first place. Take out Kelly of the equation, and Nick and Adalind never would have even saw each other in that light.""

      The series seems to point in that direction, doesn't it? Even when he and Eve were in the other world, Nick never talked about how much better his life was was without Juliette. Instead, she was the one who told him that she didn't want to go back to her old life. It was only after that that he stated he wanted Adalind back.

      Firstly this show isn't a relationship drama-fest. It's barely skindeep, let alone nuanced. Short of hitting the viewer over the head with a sledgehammer, we are expected to take things at face value. At the start he loved Juliette, a lot, then things went pearshaped for four straight seasons and then she "died". He developed an attraction to Adalind (due to being in close proximity to her becaue of their son) he was probably fighting off (and losing) because in the end he wanted her regardless of their dodgy past. He was angry over his son being taken to a BC compaound but he seemed rather hurt Adalind left him (per talk with Trubel) and fought Renard to get her back, not just his son. 

      Nick carried a lot of guilt regarding Juliette's situation once he got over his mother's death. When she was in hospital he reflected on his Aunt Marie's words in the first episode to leave her because of the dangers he'd bring in her life. He was under the mistaken assumption she wanted to go back in time to before he became a grimm, which was when they were their most happiest. She corrected him. He'd long found his purpose AND the family life he wanted and now she'd found her purpose as well. She knew before he acknowledged it himself that he loved Adalind, how and why is besides the point. She was essentially absolving him of whatever remained of his regret. You see with his reaction after she lost abilities, he/the group is  genuinely surprised she missed her abilities, again making an assumption because that would be so much easier on their conscience she be "normal Juliette" again.

      It honestly would be unfeeling of him to flaunt his new life in the very face of the woman whose life he's basically destroyed by not listening to his aunt. Nick is not callous nor duplicitous in his wants and needs. He's never said one thing when he wanted something else except under the influence of the Muse.

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    • Rpmaluki wrote: It honestly would be unfeeling of him to flaunt his new life in the very face of the woman whose life he's basically destroyed by not listening to his aunt. Nick is not callous nor duplicitous in his wants and needs. He's never said one thing when he wanted something else except under the influence of the Muse.

      I don't think so. Eve was a key member of the HW team. She knew where Nick lived and she knew Adalind lived there. She was down in the tunnels for days before Adalind and Diana brought her up and tended to her.  While she was recovering, Nick was aware of her illness. I don't see how anything Nick could say would be considered flaunting his new life in her face when, for a time, she was part of his new life.  

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    • Lucille55 wrote:

      Rpmaluki wrote: It honestly would be unfeeling of him to flaunt his new life in the very face of the woman whose life he's basically destroyed by not listening to his aunt. Nick is not callous nor duplicitous in his wants and needs. He's never said one thing when he wanted something else except under the influence of the Muse.

      I don't think so. Eve was a key member of the HW team. She knew where Nick lived and she knew Adalind lived there. She was down in the tunnels for days before Adalind and Diana brought her up and tended to her.  While she was recovering, Nick was aware of her illness. I don't see how anything Nick could say would be considered flaunting his new life in her face when, for a time, she was part of his new life.  

      It's not about Eve but Nick's own state of being. When Eve told Nick he loved Adalind, he was uncomfortable. She lived in the tunnels for days without his knowledge, when she was discovered Adalind spoke for her to remain with them, he was hesitant. There's a deleted scene that shows him asking how much longer she is stay with them, implying he preferred being without their guest. Monroe spoke carelessly about his relationship status when they were talking about the skull face in the mirror, he was visibly irritated with his friend. By the end, Eve had no more issues with Nick and Adalind together (though she did at the beginning when she threatened Adalind is S5 and was affected emotionally the night Adalind moved back at the loft and listened to Nick's confession of how difficult it was for him when Adalind was away which he didn't know abouy). In the alternate world, Eve had already made her peace but for most of the season, Nick had often paused around her when it came to Adalind except when under extreme duress where he would be free with his affection for Adalind in front of Eve, see the end of Monroe's bad birthday gift and the end of the show when time is reversed. I cannot see Nick telling Eve about his life with Adalind, why would he or should he? According to the show she already knew was privy to it every single day until she moved out. But Nick and he was under a lot of stress throughout the season, it would serve no purpose whatsoever to segue to how things are between him and Adalind. Nick followed after her because he he wanted to save her, purporting his many past failures leading up to that moment.

      I believe there's a difference between what we think he should have done and what the character would actually do based on past behaviours, wants and intentions, our expectations vs character traits. People have talked about expecting Nick and Juliette to work out and grow after she became a hexenbiest and i will admit to the same because i thought that's where the writers would take the story but it took a different path i didn't expect. Now when i look back at the show i see Nick and Juliette paths diverging literally from the first episode after his Aunt Marie's warning. Note I'm not saying i saw Nick and Adalind together, hardly ever! The writing simply stacked so much against Nick and Juliette as a couple that i see Nick ending up alone more likely than them making it after the crap Juliette went through and sacrificed for Nick. In the alternate world, he thought she was in danger because of him yet again and assumed she wanted nothing more to go back to a simpler time when SHE was happy, he's already living the life he's ever wanted, he's a grimm and has a family he comes home to and doesn't have to make a sacrifice to keep either one. Basically, he's happy and he feels she is not and is wondering if she has entertained remedying that.

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    • I wondered about a couple of things that happened during this scene. First, why does Nick choose the land of the Z to decide Eve needs to reveal her feelings to him? Second, the choice of questions are also strange. Why does he ask Eve if she wants to change things when he knows things can't be changed? Why does he continue to a question  like, "Do you really believe we're all better off"? While I don't hold with the thought in the above post that Nick is convinced Eve wants nothing to do with him, I do believe the creative team wanted the audience to see that Nick apparently still feels something for Eve. Nick is not a perceptive person in the romance department. For him to ask such pointed questions in such a dangerous environment where they both might die at any minute seems very unusual to me.

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    • it was nealy the finale and they had to settle the issues once and  for all.

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    • Lucille55 wrote: I wondered about a couple of things that happened during this scene. First, why does Nick choose the land of the Z to decide Eve needs to reveal her feelings to him? Second, the choice of questions are also strange. Why does he ask Eve if she wants to change things when he knows things can't be changed? Why does he continue to a question  like, "Do you really believe we're all better off"? While I don't hold with the thought in the above post that Nick is convinced Eve wants nothing to do with him, I do believe the creative team wanted the audience to see that Nick apparently still feels something for Eve. Nick is not a perceptive person in the romance department. For him to ask such pointed questions in such a dangerous environment where they both might die at any minute seems very unusual to me.

      As the post above me said, the show was ending and the writers were trying to tie off loose ends however clumsily they achieved it.

      In your own words, Nick is not perceptive. Eve on the other hand was, starting with the beginning of the final season when she verbalized Nick's own feelings, something hexenbiets seem akin to as part of their abilities. They can supposedly read people. The one thing Nick certainly is, is cautious and constant. He never went from one extreme to the next in an instant and why question her about what she wants and not simply confess to what you believe he supposedly feels? That's far simpler and conclusive if that was indeed the writers' intention to rekindle that relationship. Let's not forget he had plenty of time between the end of S5 and beginning of S6 to reconcile with "Juliette" seeing as he sensed her "return" after the stick healed her, and that Eve was also feeling all sorts of resurfaced feelings for Nick. Why would the writers pass the very opportunities they wrote themselves to put them together and wait until he's serious about Adalind to suddenly want him to go back? I'm not saying the writers couldn't have done it. I'm saying they simply did not. And for their hero to be shown with one woman while in truth is longing for another, isn't really heroic. It's duplicitous and cowardly and Nick is neither.

      If you remember Monroe's birthday weekend when everyone was under a spell, Eve reacted immediately when she laid eyes on Nick, which is how the spell was activated. Note how Nick in his normal state rebuffed her, he couldn't have known she was put under a spell to avoid taking advantage of her compromised state. He just wasn't interested in her like he was when they were together and was put off by her spellbound advances. That's yet another opportunity to revisit their past relationship but Nick's focus was on Adalind until he laid eyes on Rosalie, activating the spell on him. Nick is a simple guy that's fairly single minded, at least when it came to the woman he chose to be with, whether it was hexenbiet Juliette in S4 before she broke bad or finally Adalind in S6.

      In this episode, it was far too late in the story for the writers to start swinging the other way without following through with this and actually restore Nick and Juliette together and simply have him co-parent with Adalind. The purpose of that scene was for Eve to have her agency back. She don't need saving, she found her place and they both ended up where they were meant to be with what made them happy. She wasn't his responsibility any more, something that had weighed down on him in varying degrees since she became a hexenbiet. Nick being slow, needed to hear it from her more than once and even that still wasn't enough.

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    • Are you saying that, even though Nick worked with Eve, visited HW and spoke with Meisner personally, he still had no idea of her agency?
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    • 73.172.218.41 wrote:
      it was nealy the finale and they had to settle the issues once and  for all.

      There was never any indication that Eve wanted Nick back as her lover. Nick never approached her with anything but respect as far as I could see. So I'm not sure what issues there would be to settle. ​​​​​

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    • Lucille55 wrote:

      Are you saying that, even though Nick worked with Eve, visited HW and spoke with Meisner personally, he still had no idea of her agency?

      It's not for Nick to know nor care for her agency, only Eve. She'd been robbed of the ability to make her own decisions since HW forcibly beat the crazy out of her and made her into a killer bot. Then HW was destroyed and the stick unravelled all of that conditioning, leaving compromised mentally and homeless, putting her in a position where she was dependent on Nick and Adalind for a long bit. Her deciding to move out was her regaining some control over her life, culminating with her telling Nick of the things she did whilst in the alternate universe.

      The agency I meant was Eve making choices best for her as opposed to others doing that on her behalf. Nick is not her keeper, that was the whole point of that scene. They are exes whose lives took a diverging path and both are finally content. It wasn't for Nick to determine what made Eve happy, only Eve could do that. She already knew and long accepted that he was happy and just wanted him to accept the same for herself.

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    • But none of this explains why some of the viewers participating in this thread look at Nick's questions as something else entirely. I can see that point of view, certainly more than I can the thought of the scene being one where both characters take different paths and end up somehow finding true contentment.

      Nick states Eve is there because of him and then goes off into some strange diatribe about trying to get her to admit she that if she could change it all, she would. Eve, on the other hand tells him she's no longer Juliette, then goes on to relate to Nick he's there because he loved her once and feels responsible. Eve states she has a strength and purpose she never had before, but yet there is no purpose for her at that point. Nick doesn't even consider his new life, but instead questions if they're really better off.  

      So the scene fails because it's not realistic as part of the story arc. There have been heated arguments over the romantic chemistry between Nick and Juliette versus Nick and Adalind. I don't think Nick and Juliette had a lot of romantic chemistry. The thing I always believed they had is the chemistry that comes from a great friendship. Nick and Juliette had that in leaps and bounds. 

      If  this was supposed to be a scene where the two characters finally decide they are content with the way things turned out, the creative team could have made that apparent by bringing back that friendship. Unfortunately, as it stands, all the scene really reveals is that both of them didn't get what they wanted in the end and they really aren't content with their respective divergent paths.  

      Even worse, they end up bringing the Z back with them which makes makes it all a big disaster.

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    • In S5 he didn't care, he was still angry over his mother. In S6 he assumed responsibility over her after the stick sort of scrambled her brain. He cared for her again but towards the end, he overreached that responsibility as he kept seeing her as the woman that needed saving, especially by him. It's a distorted perspective that negated Eve's agency. He wasn't intentional about it, he was feeling guilt and it was making him act in a way Eve had to quickly and definitively shut down.

      Honestly, the writers sucked at all the emotional beats when it came to Nick, dropping the ball at crucial moments particularly during the last 3 seasons and excelled at their wesen of the week format. Most of their writing was done as if paint by numbers. In that last alternate world scene, they were doing too much in so little time, with a context that's haphazardly put together, there's no way it could have been a writing's slam dunk. It's not a great scene at all other than Eve owning her life as it is now.

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    • It could be that the writers may have intended on addressing the subject of Kelly's betrayal in detail. But if they did that, then Nick couldn't have a professional relationship with Eve. That whole backstory would get in the way of her providing him with intel. The other thing I think prevented it is that Nick would have to investigate Juliette's torture and indoctrination into the alter personality of Eve. There were enough storylines cluttering up season five, so I think in the best interest of the characters, the writers did what they usually do with storylines that have potential. In other words, they dropped it abruptly. Nick addressed it once to Eve, then promptly never brought it up again.

      I rather wish the writers would have done as you suggested in season 6. In other words, have Nick actually take special care with Eve. Instead they left that to Adalind, with Diana thrown in to make Eve uncomfortable every now and then. 

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    • Nick taking special care of Eve (rather than it being Adalind) at the start of S6 was not part of the writers agenda, considering they knew this would be the last season. They'd set their mind on where they wanted Nick to be and wrote everything else around that. Nick's priorities were largely on Adalind first and Eve after. See Nick's reaction after Adalind volunteered to go after Eve into the alternate world. That's why i find it difficult to buy the idea of Nick suddenly wanting to get back with Juliette when they have that confrontation in the other world. There's literally no build up towards Nick's supposed change of heart (and no follow through as i previously stated). When he thought she was strong Eve, he steered clear of any responsibility even when she was living with him. Her landing in the hospital somewhat proved her vulnerability and now being powerless propelled him to step back into his protective mode overtime where she was concerned. You can note the difference between Nick at that point and the Nick at the beginning of S6, like 2 different guys. It has nothing to do with romance or which woman he wants to be with. It's that protective nature rising up again for someone that was once extremely important to him after brushing it off for nearly two whole seasons.

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    • The confrontation between the two characters begins per script:

      Eve: Good thing you brought that.


      Nick: If I'd known I was gonna need this many bullets, I'd have brought more. [He sharply exhales as he checks his bullet count] Only three left.


      Eve: I'll check outside the perimeter. Nick: No, no, no. No, hey. We don't split up. We stay together. Eve: I don't want to be rescued, Nick. I came here for a reason.


      Nick: You can't take on the skull thing alone.


      Eve: You have a son. You should be thinking of him.


      Nick: You're here because of me. None of this would have ever happened to you if you hadn't met me.

      I'll stop at this point because Nick's statement can be taken in different ways.

      First, he could be simply talking about Eve. She was tasked with saving his life in the warehouse, but then left abruptly afterward. Eve would have had nothing to do with Nick after that. It was Nick who demanded to meet her and Meisner who apparently then ordered her to provide intel to Nick. 

      Second, Nick could be referring to Juliette. He often confused Eve with Juliette. But it really wasn't their meeting that resulted in current events. It was Nick's obsession to become a Grimm again that resulted in the current apocalypse.

      The third explanation is Nick experiencing a major guilt trip. He really should have been the one to go after the Z, not Eve. After all, he's the one that is responsible for the monster's appearance. 

      I'm sure other viewers have different interpretations. I think the character statements were deliberately non-specific. 

      I know the writers did not have Nick rendering special care to Eve. But it would have gone a long way with me believing in your theory. Instead it was Adalind who cared for Eve. Nick stayed clear of the situation.

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    • Rpmaluki wrote:
      Nick taking special care of Eve (rather than it being Adalind) at the start of S6 was not part of the writers agenda, considering they knew this would be the last season. They'd set their mind on where they wanted Nick to be and wrote everything else around that. Nick's priorities were largely on Adalind first and Eve after. See Nick's reaction after Adalind volunteered to go after Eve into the alternate world. That's why i find it difficult to buy the idea of Nick suddenly wanting to get back with Juliette when they have that confrontation in the other world. There's literally no build up towards Nick's supposed change of heart (and no follow through as i previously stated). When he thought she was strong Eve, he steered clear of any responsibility even when she was living with him. Her landing in the hospital somewhat proved her vulnerability and now being powerless propelled him to step back into his protective mode overtime where she was concerned. You can note the difference between Nick at that point and the Nick at the beginning of S6, like 2 different guys. It has nothing to do with romance or which woman he wants to be with. It's that protective nature rising up again for someone that was once extremely important to him after brushing it off for nearly two whole seasons.

      Nick taking care of Adalind first before, Eve in the scene that Adalind volunteered to save Eve was not out of love in my opinion. His priority is to keep his family safe (his child and the mother of his child). In any event that Nick would die, Adalind would be there to take care of Kelly then, come others like his friends. Nick is what you would call the cliche self-sacrificing hero. He would rather let himself die than, see others sacrifice themselves for a greater good.

      He has a hero cliche to him through and through and topped with that he wants to be a responsible father who wants his son taken care of, no way in hell was he letting the mother risk her life without knowing her chances of survival. (not to mention, Adalind is weak because not only did she just give birth but, her hexenbiest spirit has been tamed down, so what are her chances of survival there?)

      Even if Nick did love Juliette or not, we can never erase from him that he will always feel responsible for her. They've been together for 7 years, almost a decade, there will be some things there that people can never take away from them. 

      Besides, them being in the other world fighting off Z and Nick asking Juliette about happiness and if there was anything they wanted different and all that. Why would you ask something like that at such a dangerous place at such a wrong time where either one of you could die?

      Nick asking "Do you really believe we're all better off?"

      Till now it really catches me off that there was something more Nick wanted to ask and know but, he never got around it. Because why would you ask that? Those words have so much implications on them, especially when he knows that Juliette came back from being Eve. The dynamic between them changed when Juliette came back.

      The only thing that really made Nick stop himself from going back to Juliette was his son Kelly and wanting to keep a family together. Because god knows that's all Nick Burkhart wants, after being deprived of a mother and father at such a young age. He wouldn't want that for his son.

      All in all, in my opinion, Nick truly did love Juliette but with their circumstances he chose to be a family man to the woman who gave birth to his son. Also, Juliette never cleared up to him how she truly felt and if there was still love there. 

      They never really got true closure of talking about things properly so, we will never know.

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    • julliette's pregany hole is where the whole shows downward spiral began, in my opinion.

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    • Riyu von Julai wrote:  "Till now it really catches me off that there was something more Nick wanted to ask and know but, he never got around it. Because why would you ask that? Those words have so much implications on them, especially when he knows that Juliette came back from being Eve. The dynamic between them changed when Juliette came back."

      I agree that this is a loaded question, and of all the times Nick was alone with Eve, why he chose a situation where their chances of living were slim to none, is anyone's guess. It's certainly not a question that can be answered with a yes or no. But the other thing here is, that Juliette really did not come back in the true sense of the character. Eve made it plain that she was not Juliette. With that in mind, it would be interesting to discuss how or even if Eve is that mentally sophisticated to be able to separate Juliette from the person she has become.

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    • 73.172.218.41 wrote:
      julliette's pregany hole is where the whole shows downward spiral began, in my opinion.

      True! I think the show writers did intend to make Juliette pregnant. But, I remember reading somewhere that Adalind's actress became pregnant at that time. And she was still pretty essential to the plot. So, they tried to make a way through it.

      And overall, I think they still tried to steer into a SilverHart ending but they didn't have enough time at all to make the ending so. That's just my opinion of course.

      But, I do remember the show writers saying that it was an "open ending" and it can be open for interpretation. I think Nick and Juliette still ended together but, they just didn't show it so that fans from both shipping side would nto start a war lol

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    • Lucille55 wrote:
      Riyu von Julai wrote:  "Till now it really catches me off that there was something more Nick wanted to ask and know but, he never got around it. Because why would you ask that? Those words have so much implications on them, especially when he knows that Juliette came back from being Eve. The dynamic between them changed when Juliette came back."

      I agree that this is a loaded question, and of all the times Nick was alone with Eve, why he chose a situation where their chances of living were slim to none, is anyone's guess. It's certainly not a question that can be answered with a yes or no. But the other thing here is, that Juliette really did not come back in the true sense of the character. Eve made it plain that she was not Juliette. With that in mind, it would be interesting to discuss how or even if Eve is that mentally sophisticated to be able to separate Juliette from the person she has become.


      I think over the years, Eve and Juliette will mash together again into one whole person. What happened to her brainwashing. In a way, Juliette did need to become Eve because she was spiraling out of control. In my opinion, that's probably what needs to happen to every Hexenbiest so that they won't be controlled by the Hexebiest inside them.

      If the show runners had more time, I think they would've addressed Juliette's circumstances more. And then maybe we'll be able to get the Nick and Juliette closure we were deprive of. 

      But then again, not everything has a happy ending too. There's a possibility that both think their relationship is beyong being saved already, hence why we never really got it in the first place.

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    • Riyu von Julai wrote:
      I think over the years, Eve and Juliette will mash together again into one whole person. What happened to her brainwashing. In a way, Juliette did need to become Eve because she was spiraling out of control. In my opinion, that's probably what needs to happen to every Hexenbiest so that they won't be controlled by the Hexebiest inside them.
      If the show runners had more time, I think they would've addressed Juliette's circumstances more. And then maybe we'll be able to get the Nick and Juliette closure we were deprive of. But then again, not everything has a happy ending too.
      There's a possibility that both think their relationship is beyong being saved already, hence why we never really got it in the first place.

      There was a an issue I saw from day one with the "Eve" character, and I think it had to do with the creative team wanting her particular character to suffer a bit, as you will. Maybe in retribution for Nick's trailer or betraying Kelly, who knows? However, I digress.

      Sean was under the influence of Jack the Ripper's ghost. Nick got hit with some poisonous spit and murdered a man, unaware of what he was doing. The two characters got off pretty much scot free from their murderous ways because "they just didn't know what they were doing when they did it".

      But that was not to be for Eve/Juliette, so they came up with this cockamamy idea of having the "Juliette" personality housed within the same brain as the "Eve" personality. That way "Eve" could conveniently turn to "Julitette's" memories when there was an issue that necessitated it. As it is with Grimm, more often than not, "Eve" had to turn to "Juliette" for guidance. The thing I find ironic about all of this is that, for all of the fans who wanted Juliette dead, she really continued to be a major player in the series. Adalind had Nick's baby, but the Eve/Juliette character continued to carry those mysterious questions with her. "Will she become Juliette once again?" and "Will Nick go back with her if she does?" They even had Adalind wondering about Juliette coming back into the picture and what would happen to her if Juliette did.

      I have always thought that, if there had been a 7th season, direction would have drastically changed and Nick would have sought out Juliette/Eve, in an effort to try and cure her, or to help her. If you notice, Nick has never, ever tried to help her since she became Eve. One of the major, major storylines that was never addressed was her indoctrination into HW. In order to experience even a partial brainwash, she would have had to have endured ceaseless hours of torture and then neglect. Yet the "Juliette" side not only persevered, but remained quite strong throughout the last two seasons. 

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    • A Grimmster
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