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  • We have not even reached episode 8 of Season 5 and already Adalind and Nick are half in love. The screen writers could have developed that story line more. I get that they have a child together but realistically speaking most relationships are not built on that premise so they could have chosen something else for their romance to go on.

    Additionally, the Wesen Council knows of the crap going on with the Black Claw, so they should have beefed up security. Had 3 or 4 persons got up and start shooting I would have understood the logics behind that but one person and there was no one there to do anything to stop it. Additionally no one stopped to checked if persons  had weapons. #rolleyes. Another obvious plot twist we all saw coming.

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    • Regarding Nick and Adalind, the only thing I can think of is that the writers wanted to settle the matter instead of doing a typical song and dance of "will they or won't they" for too long. I'm certain it had to do with the writers realising they were at the final stretch of the show and preferred to dedicate most of the writing to their wesen of the week cases as they had daone for seasons past with an underlying arc. Grimm was never about Nick's relationships although they did use them to frame his development from being a plain cop to a Grimm/cop to mostly a Grimm. It feels like he was always reacting to what happened within each relationship especially after S2. I don't think the writers were great at writing romance unless it was Monroe and Rosalee.

      Oddly enough I did see the potential with Nick and Adalind to be something quite amazing had they been given the proper build up. I enjoyed them regardless. In the first four seasons, I was never a Juliette fan. I couldn't warm to the character and felt there was something that didn't quite gel with what was depicted of her reationship with Nick. I felt that relationship was more of a chore to watch as they never seemed to be on the same page for too long before dealing with some new drama from Nick's Grimm life culminating with the dumpster fire that was the second half of S4. It didn't help that Juliette was often depicted as whining about her circumstances even though she made the choice to stay with Nick. I blame the writing. 

      What I find a bit odd is how the writers went out of their way to make Nick and Adalind a sure thing by S6 despite having far more baggage to overcome (insurmountable by other viewers' standards and I understand why) than Nick and Juliette before them where I felt for four seasons the writers seemed to sabbotage them and I'd say unintentionally. S3 is perhaps the only time where they got it right but they quickly ruined them at the end. S4 was another opportunity to right them with Juliette becoming a hexenbiest (now they both could belong in Nick's world and actually be a unit) but the blew that up to smithereens before the end of the seasons.


      I believe Nick and Adalind were unintentionally similar in the ways he and Juliette were different, that's why when S5 came and they could finally be in a room without trying to kill one another they automatically drew to one another. S5 certainly played up the importance of family for both characters without putting a name to it until the last episode of the show when Nick thought he'd lost everyone near and dear to him. In short, they wanted the same things in life and weren't put off by the consequences of the world they were both born into and how it related to pursuing a relationship in its wholeness as opposed to him with Juliette, who seemed to have the opposite effect despite being in love and wanting to actually be together for nearly four years of screen time.

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    • Honestly, I disagree. I was rooting for Nick to be able to break through to Eve and for them to wind up together. I'm a Juliette/Nick shipper, especially since Juliette (Eve) has become much more interesting. 

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    • 107.203.164.79 wrote:
      Honestly, I disagree. I was rooting for Nick to be able to break through to Eve and for them to wind up together. I'm a Juliette/Nick shipper, especially since Juliette (Eve) has become much more interesting. 

      While I didn't care if Nick and Juliette/Eve got together, I was thinking that the series might have the gang working and finding a cure for her hexenbiest, and thus restore Juliette back to her former self. I thought they went the weenie route by having Eve make her official declaration that she didn't want to go back to the way things were, whatever. I think if the series had gone into a season seven, there might have been some major changes. Beside that, I didn't like Adalind as the Martha Stewart of the fome. She was really boring and what a waste of a great evil character. Hexenbiests seem like such independent and interesting women. Adalind raising her children by herself her way would have had the series ending on a high note for me.

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    • nick was told ep 1 to dump julliette beucase of the dangers that being with a grimm put on her. those dangers are still present and could happen to adalind. if the show had gone on longer or on to a seventh season than nick would have realzied that he needs to be alone for everone's sake. that being said i always loved julliette for so many reasons but one that stands out is that she loves nick so selflessly. she sacficed for many things for him while adalind never had to make sucha risk. to see nick with julliette is to see devotion.  to see nick and adlaind is to see desperation. I also mention that the whole witch enemy having your baby by disguising herself as your lover was copied from once upon a time, and that felt half assed story to beging with.

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    • 73.172.218.41 wrote:
      nick was told ep 1 to dump julliette beucase of the dangers that being with a grimm put on her. 

      Didn't you think that was one of the dumbest suggestions that could have occurred in the series? 

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    • given what happened no, but I've always hoped that it was just marie's own bias clouding her judgerment. personally julliette's and nick love was the thing i loved most about this show. you want monster fighting and darkness watch supernatural. you want a modern fairy tale watch once upon a time. you want a superbly writtern fanasty show watch buffy or angel. you want a happy ending watch ? but nick and juillette are the cloest I've ever seen to having a hef.hef= happily ever after.

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    • As this topic is about Adalind and Nick and my questions pertain to Adalind and Nick, I wanted to ask it here. I have been consistently reading posts about Adalind and Nick changing. I know they became parents and yes, as those of us who are parents know, that is a tremendous change. But becoming a parent doesn't necessary make a good person. If often just makes a good parent.

      No surprise to anyone here, I am a skeptic because I am not talking about how Nick was so much kinder to Adalind or Adalind was so much kinder to Nick, so therefore they have changed, so on and so forth.

      And if we are throwing out the parent card as a sign of great growth and change, then what about Renard? He also became a parent during the series' run. He is a good parent. But I can safely say that few, if any, are going to put him in the realm of Adalind and Nick.

      So in what ways did Adalind change? In what ways did Nick change? 

      ETA: I didn't want to duplicate the to other thread where this has been touched upon, but I do feel it would benefit in a thread that is actually about Adalind and Nick.

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    • "Becoming parents" doesn't even make people good parents. ;) ;).

      Anyway... Here's my perspective on how Nick and Adalind changed:

      Nick. Nick changed in that he accepted Hexenbiests are not prima-facia evil. Once you decide someone different is not evil by the fact of their existence - you can't abuse them because they exist unless you are a psychopath. So for example - if Nick had believed Hexenbiests were caring and had humanity, he probably would have approached Adalind's mother differently regarding the Juliette coma situation. You don't typically earn much goodwill out of people by stomping into their house without any introduction and threatening to kill them.... Do that sort of thing and even people who are *not* spiteful will spite you.

      Adalind changed in that initially she was ridiculously naive. First she was a naive hired gun. Then she changed to being naive and ridiculously spiteful and vindictive. Then she was a naive damsel with a baby. Then she was naive and even more spiteful and hate filled.... And then she naively got dumped into a dungeon, abused, and finally chewed up, spit out, and left for dead. THEN she started being *not* naive and started really working through the likely outcomes. So for example - Adalind being deeply attached personally to Nick and The Gang while she ensures Nick maintains a close working relationship with Renard ensures the best of all worlds for Adalind. Adalind receives all the benefit of Renard's connections and machination while she receives all the benefit of Nick's love for her and The Gang's concern for her well being.

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    • Thank you for taking the time to write this. It's actually the first time I have ever read more than the same old posts about these two. 

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    • I have never considered Adalind naive, to be honest. Naivete denotes simplicity and Adalind is not simple. She devised what I would call a pretty ingenious plan to knock off Marie.....pretend to be a nurse (or doctor) and inject her. If Nick hadn't been there, she would have gotten away with murder. 

      I guess I could say Adalind changed in that she became peaceful and stayed out of trouble. 

      I'll have to think about Nick a bit. I guess I can say he thought about security, so he bought a safer home, or fome as Adalind called it.

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    • Oh, she was ridiculously naive. Both "Operationally" and "Politically."

      Why in the world would she have ever agreed to be Renard's "Hit Man" when she is a contract lawyer? So there are TWO blindingly obvious bits that should have been in her brain: 1. Operationally.. She is naive to think that somehow a Contract Lawyer will make an effective hitman... She made a whole string of dumb mistakes like not bothering to notice whether Marie's hospital room had any witnesses in it... And not doing any research to figure out that this local guy visiting Marie was a reasonably effective Police detective who would probably know who local lawyers were due to his job....

      2. Politically.. This is Renard.. Why would someone as well connected and adept as Renard involve Her -a lawyer/ex-lover- in a hit? That should have raised red flags with her.

      And what happens - she is inexperienced, does a bunch of dumb things, and makes a big mess out in the open.. Probably just as Renard had expected/planned.. Now Nick knows they are after him and is forced to go on alert and get on his game.

      And it just gets worse from there...

      I mean SHE was the one who bit Nick when she lost her powers...

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    • Adalind took up the contract on Marie because her mother owed Renard a debt. From what I recall, the audience is never given a clue as to what this debt entails or what kind of hold Renard has over Adalind's mother in enforcing it. I would venture to guess that Renard used Adalind because she was a contract lawyer and the hold he had over her mother was in the form of a legal and iron clad document. 

      Should Adalind have done research into Marie before attempting to murder her? You'd think so, but then what kind of research would she have done? I assume Renard knew about Marie's cancer and the little time she had left. I would also imagine that Renard conveyed that information to Adalind and the fact that Marie was a patient in the hospital. She concocted a plan where she, disguised as a doctor, administers a lethal injection to Marie. The wrench in the plan was Nick, who was in the wrong place at the wrong time, and ended up getting the injection himself. 

      I don't think Adalind was naive at all because, had Nick not been there, she would have gotten away with murder.

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    • Being unaware that things like this would probably happen is sort of the definition of Naive though isn't it - Literally she had never even considered blindingly obvious stuff like "There might be someone else is in the room."

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    • I don't think Adalind should be given a free pass for naivete simply because it's Adalind who's attempting the murder. I mean, if we do that, shouldn't we then be giving the other characters free passes as well when they screw up? 

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    • Oh, I don't think she got a free pass... She very much was made to sleep in the bed she made over and over and over.. She paid dearly for every single bad/short sighted decision and she personally suffered the consequences for all the people using her. She seems to have learned a lot of hard lessons by being ground through the mills like that.

      I think it's related to "Everybody hates witches" and so everybody will always try to set them up to be blamed for everything bad that happens. And of course, because everybody hates witches - everybody naturally believes it's always their fault...

      It's not until the end of Season 4 that it seems to soak in with Adalind that it doesn't matter who else is pulling the strings - she is going to be the one left holding the bag... So she needs to get on her game and make sure she and her kids are protected and are NOT the ones blamed for everything everyone else does.... Because remember - everybody hates witches.

      So since she is going to have to eat all the blame and suffer all the consequences anyway - she has to actively take ownership for how she responds to and deals with situations.. That's when she stops being everybody else's pawn.. And that's when Adalind turns the corner.

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    • I will give credit to Adalind for something I thought took some real guts. That was going into the precinct and confronting Nick then and there about being pregnant with his son AND offering a bargaining chip to keep herself and baby alive at the same time. Nick was her sworn enemy and I doubt if Renard would have batted an eye if Nick killed her or had her killed. Renard didn't like her either.

      And that brings up a question. Why do posters see her as some kind of victim if the characters themselves do not? 

      The characters see her as a smart, manipulative enemy who would stop at nothing to kill them if it benefitted her in any way, shape, or form. She was used, but only because she wanted to be part of the plan and knew she was going to be used for one thing or another. There is a difference.

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    • GrimmsterJ wrote:

      I think it's related to "Everybody hates witches" and so everybody will always try to set them up to be blamed for everything bad that happens. And of course, because everybody hates witches - everybody naturally believes it's always their fault...

      I have been watching the Adventures of Merlin on Netflix and wanted to talk about this part of your post. King Uther has banned sorcery and of course, this always puts Merlin in a bind because, well, he's a sorcerer.

      I'm not far into the series, but it tends to put Uther in an unpopular light because he takes this view and enforces it on his kingdom. Magic or sorcery is really a good thing, not the terrible, awful practice that the mean king says it is.

      Yet.......

      Merlin often uses chants and spells to thwart enemies. Granted, some of them are sorcerers so in that aspect, I suppose it washes out. But others are enemies who happen to attack Merlin's beloved circle.

      There are characters who show up who are the victims of a terrible curse. These are generally inflicted by a witch/warlock, with terrible vengeance on his/her mind. As a result, the hapless victim is forced to murder, and in the end, gets killed.

      Merlin uses magic to amuse himself. Again, while thwarting enemies or for just plain entertainment.

      That's just some of the examples of how magic is used in the series. I do see Uther's point.

      Witches on Grimm are hated. You see that from the start with Juliette. She was hated, even by beloved Rosalee. It wasn't Rosalee's words, it's her affect while making those words. This was well before the revered trailer was torched by a single ember or before hallowed mother Kelly was betrayed.

      I'm sure I'm going to get pelted by some Adalind fan for saying this. Adalind was never portrayed as some lilly white maiden who just happened to be in the wrong place and the wrong time and in the end, paid for an innocent mistake. She used her magic to advantage, and inflicted some terrible damage as a result.  Just making an observation here, but I can see why witches are hated. It only takes one rotten apple..............

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    • Lucille55 wrote:

      Witches on Grimm are hated. You see that from the start with Juliette. She was hated, even by beloved Rosalee. It wasn't Rosalee's words, it's her affect while making those words. This was well before the revered trailer was torched by a single ember or before hallowed mother Kelly was betrayed.

      I'm sure I'm going to get pelted by some Adalind fan for saying this. Adalind was never portrayed as some lilly white maiden who just happened to be in the wrong place and the wrong time and in the end, paid for an innocent mistake. She used her magic to advantage, and inflicted some terrible damage as a result.  Just making an observation here, but I can see why witches are hated. It only takes one rotten apple..............

      Juliette was not a real witch. She was a woman TURNED into a hexenbiest and went insane because she could not handle the transformation. I doubt she had the U-shaped birthmark on the underside of her tongue - which had been used to identify hunted Hexenbiest’s throughout history.

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    • Back to the whole Nick and Adalind thing...

      It's kinda interesting to consider that to Wesen at least - Grimms were even MORE hated than HB's... To the point that it was considered an important badge of courage for a Wesen to murder a Grimm if they had an opportunity. And so Aunt Marie can't even die in piece... Kenneth has to go kill a Grimm to prove himself - thus throwing a giant wrench into his own plans to retrieve Diana...

      And ALL the Wesen kid fairy tales were about Grimms cutting off their heads.... Yet the Wesen Council was far more likely to be heavy handed with misbehaving Wesen...

      And yet there were extremely few Grimms.. So for example when Trubel talks about working with HW - she only mentions meeting two others in the whole world besides Nick... Aunt Marie considered it a curse to the point where a Grimm should refuse to have children to prevent any more Grimms being forced to live through what they had to.... Rolec Porter seemed happy that his son wasn't "cursed" with being a Grimm.... Even Juliette didn't seem interested in having kids which would potentially have to live in the world Nick inhabited..

      Compare that to HB's - where in Portland alone there were at least 6.

      But that wraps back around to one of the undercurrents of the show... Don't hate people until you get to know them.... If you hate "Different" - you lose out on a giant amount of good in your own personal life. If they are bad they are bad - then it's fine to hate them... But even bad people can change.

      I have to give Adalind credit - she understood just how much Wesen and Grimms disliked HB's on general principle, and herself in particular because she had earned The Gang's distrust and hate honest... And thus she understood she would have to intentionally work extra hard to earn any trust or goodwill out of them. And she intentionally takes up the challenge of doing that.

      And interestingly because of all that effort - Adalind becomes the one who opens the door for The Gang to accept Hexen-Eve. Aka - Juliette/Eve was not inherently evil, she was just dealing with a difficult personal transformation and that road was a very rocky one...

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    • GrimmPower wrote:

      Juliette was not a real witch. She was a woman TURNED into a hexenbiest and went insane because she could not handle the transformation. I doubt she had the U-shaped birthmark on the underside of her tongue - which had been used to identify hunted Hexenbiest’s throughout history.

      So was Adalind. I doubt ske kept that U-shaped birthmark once she bit Nick. Remember her words before she Stefania helped her get another spirit? 

      "I'm just like everybody else."

      She never said, "but thank goodness I still have my U-shaped birthmark". 

      For all the good it would have done her.

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    • GrimmsterJ wrote:

      And interestingly because of all that effort - Adalind becomes the one who opens the door for The Gang to accept Hexen-Eve. Aka - Juliette/Eve was not inherently evil, she was just dealing with a difficult personal transformation and that road was a very rocky one...

      I think that's a nice thing to say about Adalind, but you have to figure Adalind's new place in the scheme of the show. She's there to tend to baby Kelly, get Diana back, and be there for Nick. Oh, she'll do a spell now and then, hold a job for a couple of days and even willingly go over to Renard to get Diana back. But when all is said and done, she goes back to where she's been relegated. To Nick's fome with her kids. 

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    • But what if that's her "Fairy tale?" There are a whole lot worse things in life than having a more or less "regular" family life.... I mean she chased the whole dream of being Royalty and she learned the hard truth - that her place in the castle was either as the young and beautiful sex object of royalty or in the Dungeon... And she would only stay young so long...

      But then her hanging back and not pushing into adventures served another purpose... If she is only involved when they ask her to be - "The Witch" doesn't get attacked or blamed for any of the backlash or nasty side effects.... So for example with the Trust Me Knot - the deal fell through but Adalind didn't get blamed or attacked by anybody. She was a 3rd party performing a transaction at their request.. And for example - Adalind doesn't get blamed for Eve's Witch trouble even though it was her mother's books.... And when she does have to "Hexenbiest" with them - she gives the gang warning so they are mentally ready for "The Witch" to do her thing...

      Contrast this with Eve.. She wanted to be "A warrior" and as a result she sort of gave The Gang the creeps the whole time... It's pretty clear she wasn't really sensitive to stuff like: Monrosalie may take offense to Hexenbiests "Witching" inside their own house without their permission/oversight... Or that her "Witching" was likely to produce weird problems which they would then be forced to try to sort out...

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    • Consider the fome for a moment. This is a fortress in a warehouse district. It's got dangerous aspects to it, like the passage to the underground. It's only got one bedroom, but a neat hidden garage. In other words, it's built for a bachelor. So here's Adalind and her little baby. A lot of fans feel Adalind is just a person who is used by others. Maybe she feels this is the best she's ever going to get? In any case, it seems that Adalind just goes from one dungeon to another.

      As for Eve, I never once believed that she wanted to be a warrior. Meisner threatened her with a "do this or die" proposition. Did she know what trauma lay ahead when she agreed? Probably not.

      If you notice, women do not fare well on Grimm.

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    • I guess we all pick our prisons...

      Nick is a "Guest" in Adalind and Kelly's room... The room wasn't his...

      Nick offered Adalind the choice of whether to come along or not...

      And after knowing how many times people had broken into his last house to go after him (including herself more than once) - it seems like maybe Adalind was OK with the idea of being "Safer."

      He gave her a car and a credit card when they got there.. Lets her come and go as she pleases. Was fine with her getting a job, making income of her own, and attending to the requirements of her job (client meeting and such)... And he didn't appear to have anybody watching her...

      And for a while he seemed to be waiting the day when he would come home and find she had abandoned him. While The Gang was sad for Nick when Adalind did leave him - they didn't seem surprised.

      The gang seemed *far* more surprised that Adalind came back. They seemed genuinely surprised that she had the capacity to be a decent human being and maintain a loving relationship with anybody much less "A Grimm"...

      And I bet if Adalind decided she wanted a better house - she would have no problem making Nick want to move too... Women are generally pretty effective at manipulating men when they want to...

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    • But you see, it's all about what Nick offers Adalind. Remember when she ran off to be with Renard when Diana was offered to her? Nick was not so happy with her then. What's interesting is, Adalind didn't take the car he offered to her or the credit card.

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    • Lucille55 wrote:
      But you see, it's all about what Nick offers Adalind. Remember when she ran off to be with Renard when Diana was offered to her? Nick was not so happy with her then. What's interesting is, Adalind didn't take the car he offered to her or the credit card.

      Firstly, Adalind went to get Diana, she did not run off to “be with Renard” – she expressed disgust in his presence and described it as a hostage situation. Nick never blamed Adalind – he blamed Renard. It was Eve who kept asking if Nick blamed Adalind, something that irritated both Nick and Trubel.

      Secondly, Nick sold the old house because it was an unsafe location for Adalind and baby Kelly. If you noticed, a wesen-war was on the horizon. The loft was supposed to be a secret. Nick did not have access to an luxurious underground bunker. Adalind appreciated Nick's efforts so much that she preferred living in the old paint factory rather than being first lady of Portland.

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    • GrimmPower wrote: Firstly, Adalind went to get Diana, she did not run off to “be with Renard” – she expressed disgust in his presence and described it as a hostage situation. Nick never blamed Adalind – he blamed Renard. It was Eve who kept asking if Nick blamed Adalind, something that irritated both Nick and Trubel.

      Interesting, because when the question of why she took Kelly with her, making him a hostage too, there were responses indicating she went to Renard with Kelly because she was afraid Nick would be killed. She was a hostage..............but so was Renard. And the thing here is, if Nick had been killed, Adalind had a safe haven with Renard. 

      You bring up that Adalind expressed disgust in Renard's presence. So what? She expressed hatred in Nick's presence. Is it really so hard to envision that if, Nick died, Adalind might once again develop feelings for Renard? 

      Grimm Power wrote: Adalind appreciated Nick's efforts so much that she preferred living in the old paint factory rather than being first lady of Portland.

      Like I said, from one dungeon to another. So much for the mother who puts her children first.

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    • I mean, it makes much more sense for Nick and Juliet/Eve to be together since their actors are actually married and just had a child.

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    • Well, since Grimm is over that will have to be the Season 3 plot twist for "A Million Little Things". ;) ;)

      Who knew that Eddie was secretly married to another woman and has a kid with her.  :o :o

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    • Lucille55 wrote: Like I said, from one dungeon to another. So much for the mother who puts her children first.

      Seriously.. If she wanted Nick to sell the place and buy something else - don't you think she could have persuaded him in like one second? Adalind was *extremely* adept at persuading Nick whenever she wanted to..

      Look back to the Henrietta scene - once she put her hands on him, he was leaning into her to get the kiss... And that was just a parlor trick...

      And the Pregnant Adalind in the police station scene was even better... Once she got her hands on him - he did literally everything she wanted without question or protest..

      Renard even commented that Adalind was very good at using her powers of persuasion... It was after the Hexenbiest fight. Adalind gets into the car with Renard and is holding his hand while talking with him.. He says "Damn you are good. If I didn't know you I would be in love with you."

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    • Lucille55 wrote:
      GrimmPower wrote: Firstly, Adalind went to get Diana, she did not run off to “be with Renard” – she expressed disgust in his presence and described it as a hostage situation. Nick never blamed Adalind – he blamed Renard. It was Eve who kept asking if Nick blamed Adalind, something that irritated both Nick and Trubel.

      Interesting, because when the question of why she took Kelly with her, making him a hostage too, there were responses indicating she went to Renard with Kelly because she was afraid Nick would be killed. She was a hostage..............but so was Renard. And the thing here is, if Nick had been killed, Adalind had a safe haven with Renard. 

      You bring up that Adalind expressed disgust in Renard's presence. So what? She expressed hatred in Nick's presence. Is it really so hard to envision that if, Nick died, Adalind might once again develop feelings for Renard? 

      Grimm Power wrote: Adalind appreciated Nick's efforts so much that she preferred living in the old paint factory rather than being first lady of Portland.

      Like I said, from one dungeon to another. So much for the mother who puts her children first.

      Adalind went to Renard because it was the only way to get Diana back. Adalind told Nick everything she knew (Renard would use Diana to get to her) until Bonaparte came to her office and threatened her, saying she would lose her daughter. Diana then called "as Renard" and told her they needed an answer by tonight. By the time Nick came home, Adalind was forced to leave.

      Renard: “I know this was not an easy decision for you”.

      Adalind: “You held my daughter hostage”.

      If Adalind had not taken Kelly, it would basically have striped Nick’s abilities to fight BC and even put the child in danger. What would happened if BC had attacked the loft and Kelly was still there? How would Nick be able to fight BC and babysit Kelly at the same time? The Spice shop and Bud's repair shop was both attacked, so no place was safe.

      There was never any relationship between Renard and Adalind. She slept with him twice during the show, and both times she had ulterior motives. They appear to have been together sometime before the pilot, but this is never explained, and she never express any positive feelings for him. On the contrary, she told Bonaparte she could never love Renard: “Sean just isn't my type. And, unfortunately, that's not gonna change”.

      Renard joined a terror organization. He was willing to use Diana to get to Adalind, to get to Nick. If Adalind had joined Renard and helped him trick Nick into a death strap (Nick trusted her completely), her son would have lost his father and both her kids would have grown up in a world of war and terror. Choosing the right side (i.e. Nick) was very much putting her children first.

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    • GrimmPower wrote: If Adalind had not taken Kelly, it would basically have striped Nick’s abilities to fight BC and even put the child in danger. What would happened if BC had attacked the loft and Kelly was still there? How would Nick be able to fight BC and babysit Kelly at the same time? The Spice shop and Bud's repair shop was both attacked, so no place was safe.

      And what I am saying is Nick was never included in Adalind's decision. Adalind didn't even tell him she went to see Renard. Don't you think the father of the child she took off to Renard with should have at least some say so in that child's welfare? Monroe and Rosalee were flabbergasted when they saw Adalind on television, appearing at Renard's side with her kids. 

      GrimmPower wrote: There was never any relationship between Renard and Adalind. She slept with him twice during the show, and both times she had ulterior motives. They appear to have been together sometime before the pilot, but this is never explained, and she never express any positive feelings for him. On the contrary, she told Bonaparte she could never love Renard: “Sean just isn't my type. And, unfortunately, that's not gonna change”.

      One wonders why then Catherine made an observation about it then. I am paraphrasing here, but I believe she told Adalind point blank that she (Adalind) was in love with Renard. Adalind did not answer the question. If she didn't love the man, all she would have had to do was deny it.

      Let's say that Nick and the scoobies were killed by Black Claw. You don't think for one moment Adalind's going to leave the mansion and begin on her own, do you? No way.

      GrimmPower wrote: Renard joined a terror organization. He was willing to use Diana to get to Adalind, to get to Nick. If Adalind had joined Renard and helped him trick Nick into a death strap (Nick trusted her completely), her son would have lost his father and both her kids would have grown up in a world of war and terror. Choosing the right side (i.e. Nick) was very much putting her children first.

      She didn't choose the right side. She was threatened, believed Black Claw would win and Nick would die. You implied as much yourself, stating she couldn't stay with Nick because of the possibility of Black Claw attacking the loft. Adalind did not believe in the right side. Standing by Renard when he won the mayoral election was proof of that.

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    • Lucille55 wrote: Let's say that Nick and the scoobies were killed by Black Claw. You don't think for one moment Adalind's going to leave the mansion and begin on her own, do you? 'No way.

      Why not? She was on her own most of the series and hated Renard. Her hate for Renard would grow even more if he was responsible for killing the father of her son and the man she loved. She said herself she would kill Renard if Nick got hurt. She did not stay at the mansion because she wanted to.

      Lucille55 wrote: She didn't choose the right side. She was threatened, believed Black Claw would win and Nick would die. You implied as much yourself, stating she couldn't stay with Nick because of the possibility of Black Claw attacking the loft. Adalind did not believe in the right side. Standing by Renard when he won the mayoral election was proof of that.

      She neither choose the wrong side nor believed Nick would die.

      She went to get Diana. She wanted nothing to do with BC or Renard but was desperate to get her daughter back. It’s also not true that Adalind did not tell Nick about her meeting with Renard. She woke him up in the middle of the night just to tell him. When Nick left home the morning Adalind disappeared, she had told him everything she knew. It was everything that happened THAT DAY that forced her to leave. She begged for more time.

      By leaving Kelly behind, Nick's hands would be tied. He could not take care of Kelly and fight BC at the same time. By taking Kelly, Adalind made sure that 1) Nick could focus on taking down Renard and 2) that Diana got to know her half-brother, something Adalind used to help Nick.

      Adalind was worried about Nick being killed, but she certainly did not expect him to die. What did Adalind write in the letter to Nick? “Have to protect you”.

      She also expected Nick to rescue her:

      Adalind: He's gonna figure out we're with you, and he's not gonna be happy about it.

      Renard: I'll deal with Burkhardt.

      Adalind: He may just deal with you too.

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    • GrimmPower wrote:
      Why not? She was on her own most of the series and hated Renard. Her hate for Renard would grow even more if he was responsible for killing the father of her son and the man she loved. She said herself she would kill Renard if Nick got hurt. She did not stay at the mansion because she wanted to.

      Adalind's hatred means nothing in this series. That's my point. Adalind has never let her hatred prevent her from getting what she wants. For instance, she hated Nick. She pushed aside her hatred to make a deal with him so her son would be safe. According to you, she loathed and despised Renard. That didn't prevent her from moving in with him so she could see Diana. So she can hate, so what? It's an insiginificant emotion as far as Adalind is concerned. 

      She wants comfort and safety for herself and her children. If Nick died in the Black Claw war, she'll stay with Renard. He already said he'd make Kelly his own. Adalind would gladly push aside her hatred for that.

      GrimmPower wrote: She went to get Diana.

      And just how did she "get Diana". It seems to me that Adalind had already made up her mind that she was never going to "get Diana". Otherwise she wouldn't have sneaked off with Kelly. 

      GrimmPower wrote:She wanted nothing to do with BC or Renard but was desperate to get her daughter back. It’s also not true that Adalind did not tell Nick about her meeting Renard. She woke him up in the middle of the night just to tell him. When Nick left home the morning Adalind disappeared, she had told him everything she knew. It was everything that happened THAT DAY that forced her to leave. She begged for more time.

      Maybe I am looking at the wrong episode, but the one I looked at, which occurred immediately before she took off, indicated that she told Nick about her powers coming back. I didn't see anything to indicate she told him about Renard.

      Her note was very vague as well: 

      I'm doing something I have to do. I don't expect you to ever understand what I've done. It's the only way to protect my children. And I don't expect you to believe this, but I love you. I'm sorry.

      Nick was very angry when he read the note. Certainly not the reaction of a father who's helped to make this very important decision for his son.

      GrimmPower wrote: By leaving Kelly behind, Nick's hands would be tied. He could not take care of Kelly and fight BC at the same time. By taking Kelly, Adalind made sure that 1) Nick could focus on taking down Renard and 2) that Diana got to know her half-brother, something Adalind used to help Nick.

      Well, that's real nice, but it's not Adalind at all.

      GrimmPower wrote: Adalind was worried about Nick being killed, but she certainly did not expect him to die. What did Adalind write in the letter to Nick? “Have to protect you”.

      The only thing I could find was that the note indicated She had to protect *her* children. 

      GrimmPower wrote: She also expected Nick to rescue her.

      If she hadn't have left in the first place, that would not be an expectation. 

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    • You can see how Adalind was able to grow through here naïveté and mature....

      By prepping Nick the way she did, leaving the way she did, and taking Kelly - she puts herself in a no-lose situation..

      Nick did not "Blame" her for her decision to leave - and so that didn't jeopardize her relationship with him... The opposite in fact - he came out wanting her FAR more than he did going in...

      Renard credits her for her decision and wants Adalind to be Diana's mother - but also did not "Blame" her for her attachment to Nick or her anger against himself.. Renard doesn't blame her for Nick's attachment to her or The Gang's machinations against himself... So no loss to Adalind either...

      Black Claw was forced to protect both kids from themselves - they couldn't really harm either Adalind or the kids because they had to maintain appearances of the "First Family of Portland".. And Diana took care of their other plans....

      And Nick was forced to work out a strategy to defeat Black Claw in Portland rather than just kidnapping Kelly and leaving....

      Overall - it was a well crafted manipulative strategy...

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    • Lucille55 wrote:

      Maybe I am looking at the wrong episode, but the one I looked at, which occurred immediately before she took off, indicated that she told Nick about her powers coming back. I didn't see anything to indicate she told him about Renard.

      Adalind: Nick. You need to wake up.

      Nick: What's wrong?

      Adalind: I need to tell you something.

      Nick: Okay.

      Adalind: I talked to Sean Renard.

      Nick: Why?

      Adalind: He called. He wouldn't tell me on the phone what it was about. He wanted to meet. It's Diana.  [.....] I think he's gonna use Diana to get to me for some reason.

      Lucille55 wrote:

      The only thing I could find was that the note indicated She had to protect *her* children. 

      Well, you see that is the problem with only reading transcripts. Adalind used her hexenbiest powers to make the ink disappear as soon as Nick had read her message, but for a moment, four words remained, forming a new message: “have to protect you”.

      Lucille55 wrote:

      Nick was very angry when he read the note. Certainly not the reaction of a father who's helped to make this very important decision for his son.

      Yeah, angry at RENARD!

      Nick: You have Adalind and my son.

      Renard: Nick, sometimes the only way to protect the ones you love is to let them go.

      Nick: And sometimes the only way to protect the ones you love is to kill the people who threaten them.
      ---
      Nick: Adalind left me a note.

      Trubel: What'd she say?

      Nick: Well, she said she had to do what she did.

      Trubel: You believe her.

      Nick: Yeah.


      Lucille55 wrote:

      Well, that's real nice, but it's not Adalind at all.

      It’s what ACTALLY happened…….​​

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    • GrimmsterJ wrote:

      Nick did not "Blame" her for her decision to leave - and so that didn't jeopardize her relationship with him... The opposite in fact - he came out wanting her FAR more than he did going in...

      And that makes him look like a total fool. I have often wondered if this weird turnabout was due to season six being shortened because of the cancellation. 

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    • GrimmPower wrote:

      Well, you see that is the problem with only reading transcripts. Adalind used her hexenbiest powers to make the ink disappear as soon as Nick had read her message, but for a moment, four words remained, forming a new message: “have to protect you”..​​

      You might want to ask before assuming. I didn't read the transcript. 

      I know that the words faded to "I have to protect you". However, that doesn't really jive with the story, does it?

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    • Lucille55 wrote:
      GrimmPower wrote:

      Well, you see that is the problem with only reading transcripts. Adalind used her hexenbiest powers to make the ink disappear as soon as Nick had read her message, but for a moment, four words remained, forming a new message: “have to protect you”..​​

      You might want to ask before assuming. I didn't read the transcript. 

      I know that the words faded to "I have to protect you". However, that doesn't really jive with the story, does it?

      Assuming? You wrote: “Maybe I am looking at the wrong episode”. You have on several occasions made it clear that you are not re-watching Grimm. What was I to believe?

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    • GrimmPower wrote: Assuming? You wrote: “Maybe I am looking at the wrong episode”. You have on several occasions made it clear that you are not re-watching Grimm. 


      You might want to re-read my post again. That response had nothing to do with Adalind's note. It had to do with her waking up and telling Nick she talked to Renard.  Here is the post:

      GrimmPower wrote:She wanted nothing to do with BC or Renard but was desperate to get her daughter back. It’s also not true that Adalind did not tell Nick about her meeting Renard. She woke him up in the middle of the night just to tell him. When Nick left home the morning Adalind disappeared, she had told him everything she knew. It was everything that happened THAT DAY that forced her to leave. She begged for more time.

      Maybe I am looking at the wrong episode, but the one I looked at, which occurred immediately before she took off, indicated that she told Nick about her powers coming back. I didn't see anything to indicate she told him about Renard.

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    • Lucille55 wrote:
      GrimmPower wrote: Assuming? You wrote: “Maybe I am looking at the wrong episode”. You have on several occasions made it clear that you are not re-watching Grimm. 

      You might want to re-read my post again. That response had nothing to do with Adalind's note. It had to do with her waking up and telling Nick she talked to Renard.  Here is the post:

      GrimmPower wrote:She wanted nothing to do with BC or Renard but was desperate to get her daughter back. It’s also not true that Adalind did not tell Nick about her meeting Renard. She woke him up in the middle of the night just to tell him. When Nick left home the morning Adalind disappeared, she had told him everything she knew. It was everything that happened THAT DAY that forced her to leave. She begged for more time.

      Maybe I am looking at the wrong episode, but the one I looked at, which occurred immediately before she took off, indicated that she told Nick about her powers coming back. I didn't see anything to indicate she told him about Renard.

      My mistake, I should have quoted: "The only thing I could find was that the note indicated She had to protect *her* children". It is very difficult to interpret that phrase as not referring to a script. 

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    • There was no problem interpreting this, however:

      Well, you see that is the problem with only reading transcripts....etc.

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    • Lucille55 wrote:
      There was no problem interpreting this, however:

      Well, you see that is the problem with only reading transcripts....etc.

      Interpret it as you like, I've already explained why I wrote it. I'm not your enemy......at least that's what Renard said.

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    • Just like I explained how easy it was to interpret your statement. BTW, I never thought you were my enemy. 

      Lucille55 wrote: 'Well, that's real nice, but it's not Adalind at all.

      GrimmPower wrote: It’s what ACTALLY happened…….​​

      Adalind didn't leave Nick so he could focus on taking down Renard. That would put not only her in danger, but her children as well. 

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    • I thought one of the interesting pieces of Adalind and Nick in the last two seasons is that they sort of turned out to be the "Antidote" to eachother's crazy... Especially after her hexen-suppressant wore off... And it was evident to The Gang....

      So here are these two extremely dangerous and volatile characters... And their crazy calms way down when they are with eachother... The Gang isn't having to constantly intervene with Nick to keep him under control and they aren't trying to keep Adalind as far away as possible or wrack their brains trying to undo her crazy witching...

      And ironically - The Gang ends up working to get them back together because they go crazy when they are apart for too long....

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    • Lucille55 wrote:

      GrimmPower wrote: It’s what ACTALLY happened…….​​

      Adalind didn't leave Nick so he could focus on taking down Renard. That would put not only her in danger, but her children as well. 

      She left to get Diana back, helped take down Renard and moved back in with Nick as soon as she got the change. To be more specific:

      Adalind was almost killed because she refused to tell where Nick lived.

      Adalind used Diana to warn Nick.

      Adalind called Nick twice, met him in secret and conspired against Renard.

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    • Adalind didn't leave to get Diana back. That was never her intent. She left to be with Diana. There is a difference. Adalind may have hoped Nick would rescue her, but I don't believe for one minute she was certain it would happen. She saw the writing on the wall. Nick was outnumbered and there was no way for him to win. So she warned him, so she used her daughter to warn him, so she called him in secret. She still stood by Renard on television with her children when he won the election. She lived with Renard and would have lived with him for the rest of her days had Nick died. That was her plan, to keep her children safe.

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    • Lucille55 wrote: Nick was outnumbered and there was no way for him to win.

      What are you taking about? Nick DID win.

      Lucille55 wrote: She still stood by Renard on television with her children when he won the election.

      She was instructed by Boneparte, the zauberbiest who threatened her children, to go up on that stage. Shortly after, when Renard had a delusion that she would sleep with him, she threw objects at him and told him to get the hell out of her bedroom.

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    • GrimmPower wrote: What are you taking about? Nick DID win.

      Certainly, with Eve's help. He would have died otherwise. 

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    • GrimmPower wrote: She was instructed by Boneparte, the zauberbiest who threatened her children, to go up on that stage.

      Can you provide the script to support that? I don't recall Bonaparte telling her to get up on the stage with Renard. 

      GrimmPower wrote: Shortly after, when Renard had a delusion that she would sleep with him, she threw objects at him and told him to get the hell out of her bedroom.

      I know you keep trying to make this argument that Adalind's dislike/hatred/loathing is some kind of proof that she would never, ever get back with Renard. But that is a lame argument because Adalind never let her feelings get in the way of what she wants. Case in point: She loves Nick, but left him. She hates Renard but went to be with him because he could protect her children. I would venture to guess that Adalind would have slept with him if she felt like it. After all, sex doesn't appear to be a big deal to her.

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    • Lucille55 wrote:

      Can you provide the script to support that? I don't recall Bonaparte telling her to get up on the stage with Renard.

      Renard: Now, there are a lot of people that I need to thank tonight, but I would like to begin with the love of my life and the mother of my children, Adalind, please, come up and join me.

      Adalind hesitates

      Bonaparte: “Come on, darling. Come on. Get up there”.

      Lucille55 wrote:

      I know you keep trying to make this argument that Adalind's dislike/hatred/loathing is some kind of proof that she would never, ever get back with Renard. But that is a lame argument because Adalind never let her feelings get in the way of what she wants. Case in point: She loves Nick, but left him. She hates Renard but went to be with him because he could protect her children. I would venture to guess that Adalind would have slept with him if she felt like it. After all, sex doesn't appear to be a big deal to her.

      Firstly, she did not go back to him because HE could protect her children. She left because he HAD Diana. Secondly, the main problem with all of this is that you are unwilling to accept that Adalind changed, although that was a big part of the storyline.

      Adalind  to Renard:  I'm not the same Hexenbiest I was.

      [….]

      Renard: You must have fallen harder for Burkhardt than I thought.

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    • Thanks, although I don't know how that equates to Bonaparte somehow forcing Adalind onto the stage. But that raises yet another question. Why was she there in the first place. She apparently must have wanted to be there. 

      GrimmPower wrote: Firstly, she did not go back to him because HE could protect her children. She left because he HAD Diana. Secondly, the main problem with all of this is that you are unwilling to accept that Adalind changed, although that was a big part of the storyline.

      First, I don't know why you keep attempting to portray Adalind as the continual fool. She knows Black Claw is a big organization, much more powerful than Nick's small band of scoobies. And as you yourself stated, she can't have Nick babysitting and the fome isn't going to be a 100% fortress. She was invited to come over there to be with her daughter. You really don't think she's figuring it's much safer for her and her children with Renard than it is with Nick?

      Second, why is it that you believe falling in love would change Adalind for good? She helped Nick, well duh, she loves him. I have always viewed love as a possessive emotion because it's directed at one person. Adalind spent most of her time in the fome, loving Nick. That's it. 

      BTW, there is no need to respond to this since you find my posts redundant. No need to tire yourself out.

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    • Lucille55
      Lucille55 removed this reply because:
      duplicate post
      14:52, April 27, 2020
      This reply has been removed
    • The thing with Black Claw is that they had their own agenda..

      For example - Renard had proven *extremely* adept at manipulation and "Politicking". Renard had spent *YEARS* developing the various resources he had available...

      And yet Black Claw wanted to wipe all *that* out and replace it with their own resources. Why? Because they needed to put Renard under their own control.. So he couldn't be allowed to develop and run his own teams who were all loyal to him and not necessarily to Black Claw.

      So for example - Bonaparte just hand waves away all Renard's objections to everything without even considering Renard might be right and know how to run things... Like for example Renard knew taking Adalind and Kelly away from Nick would be disastrous - yet Bonaparte didn't care....

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    • Lucille55 wrote:
      Thanks, although I don't know how that equates to Bonaparte somehow forcing Adalind onto the stage. But that raises yet another question. Why was she there in the first place. She apparently must have wanted to be there. 

      GrimmPower wrote: Firstly, she did not go back to him because HE could protect her children. She left because he HAD Diana. Secondly, the main problem with all of this is that you are unwilling to accept that Adalind changed, although that was a big part of the storyline.

      First, I don't know why you keep attempting to portray Adalind as the continual fool. She knows Black Claw is a big organization, much more powerful than Nick's small band of scoobies. And as you yourself stated, she can't have Nick babysitting and the fome isn't going to be a 100% fortress. She was invited to come over there to be with her daughter. You really don't think she's figuring it's much safer for her and her children with Renard than it is with Nick?

      Second, why is it that you believe falling in love would change Adalind for good? She helped Nick, well duh, she loves him. I have always viewed love as a possessive emotion because it's directed at one person. Adalind spent most of her time in the fome, loving Nick. That's it. 

      BTW, there is no need to respond to this since you find my posts redundant. No need to tire yourself out.

      She obviously did not want to be there. I could keep posting quotes where Adalind says she does not want to be there, but what's the point if you are going to ignore the big picture? Bonaparte and BC wanted Adalind so she could make Renard look like a family man. They used Diana to get her. What use would Adalind be to them if she refused? Bonaparte turned Adalind into stone when she did not want to marry Renard. He almost killed her when she refused to tell him where Nick lived. What do you think he would have done if she refused to show up in public? She would be in mortal danger. Is it so difficult to understand that Adalind had to play along, until she got the change to reach out for Nick?

      As for posts beeing redundant, I referred to what you wrote about Kelly in another thread. If you want me to stop responding to all your posts, that's fine.

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    • First of all, don't throw this on me with a threat that you're not going to respond because I don't want you to. Most of the time I think you really want me to tell you not to respond, so you have some excuse.

      According to you, you liked debating with me. I like debating with you. But lately, everytime I say something, you come swooping in with some sarcastic remark or innuendo. 

      You have a way of seeing the big picture, according to you, because, it is, according TO YOU. I have a differing opinion on this because of what I saw in Grimm. But for you, my opinion does not exist because I don't see your big picture. I don't see it YOUR way. 

      And what's so ironic is, that if I were talking about Juliette or Eve in this matter, you wouldn't say a thing. But because it's about Adalind, you take it personally.

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    • GrimmsterJ wrote:
      The thing with Black Claw is that they had their own agenda..

      For example - Renard had proven *extremely* adept at manipulation and "Politicking". Renard had spent *YEARS* developing the various resources he had available...

      And yet Black Claw wanted to wipe all *that* out and replace it with their own resources. Why? Because they needed to put Renard under their own control.. So he couldn't be allowed to develop and run his own teams who were all loyal to him and not necessarily to Black Claw.

      So for example - Bonaparte just hand waves away all Renard's objections to everything without even considering Renard might be right and know how to run things... Like for example Renard knew taking Adalind and Kelly away from Nick would be disastrous - yet Bonaparte didn't care....

      Renard's resources would be small potatoes for an organization like Black Claw. I think the only reason Renard caught the eye of Black Claw was because of Rachel's efforts. Renard had no aspirations to become mayor. He seemed content to run his own little spider web in the Portland PD.

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    • Lucille55 wrote:
      First of all, don't throw this on me with a threat that you're not going to respond because I don't want you to. Most of the time I think you really want me to tell you not to respond, so you have some excuse.

      According to you, you liked debating with me. I like debating with you. But lately, everytime I say something, you come swooping in with some sarcastic remark or innuendo. 

      You have a way of seeing the big picture, according to you, because, it is, according TO YOU. I have a differing opinion on this because of what I saw in Grimm. But for you, my opinion does not exist because I don't see your big picture. I don't see it YOUR way. 

      And what's so ironic is, that if I were talking about Juliette or Eve in this matter, you wouldn't say a thing. But because it's about Adalind, you take it personally.

      I’m not going to start a debate about debating techniques and motives. Let's just say that we both have some potential for improvement. BTW, the day I don’t take attacks on Nick or Adalind personally, there is no passion for Grimm left.

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    • GrimmPower wrote:

      I’m not going to start a debate about debating techniques and motives. Let's just say that we both have some potential for improvement. BTW, the day I don’t take attacks on Nick or Adalind personally, there is no passion for Grimm left.

      That's where we differ. I consider myself separate and apart from the series. Because of that, I can have a passion for elements, stories, and characters of Grimm, yet not take any of this personally. It's probably the reason why others (not you) feel they can take personal potshots at me. In any case, I do agree with your assessment that the potential for improvement is there for both of us.

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    • Lucille55 wrote:

      That's where we differ. I consider myself separate and apart from the series. Because of that, I can have a passion for elements, stories, and characters of Grimm, yet not take any of this personally. It's probably the reason why others (not you) feel they can take personal potshots at me. In any case, I do agree with your assessment that the potential for improvement is there for both of us.

      You have never taken any of this personally? I did not stumble across Grimm wiki (or another forum) yesterday. LOL

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    • So now you're deliberately looking for instances to the contrary?  I guess I would have to assume so by the italics and the little "lol," at the end of your statement. Just answer this truthfully. Did you mean what you said about both of us needing improvement or was that also just a "lol"?  In answer to your question, I am intelligent enough to know when a person is taking a potshot at me versus criticizing a character. Give me that much credit, would you? I don't tolerate that. And you know as well as I do that there are people out there who could care less what is posted because they are after the person who posted it. So again, are you for real with your statement or is this just a waste of our time?

      And please don't add some caveat about joking because you weren't joking when you made the statement in the first place.

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    • Lucille55 wrote:
      So now you're deliberately looking for instances to the contrary?  I guess I would have to assume so by the italics and the little "lol," at the end of your statement.

      Just answer this truthfully. Did you mean what you said about both of us needing improvement or was that also just a "lol"?  In answer to your question, I am intelligent enough to know when a person is taking a potshot at me versus criticizing a character. Give me that much credit, would you? I don't tolerate that. And you know as well as I do that there are people out there who could care less what is posted because they are after the person who posted it. So again, are you for real with your statement or is this just a waste of our time?

      And please don't add some caveat about joking because you weren't joking when you made the statement in the first place.

      I am not “deliberately looking for instances to the contrary”. When you told me I took it personally, I had no problem accepting I sometimes do. You then told me that you don’t, because your “separate and apart from the series”. Whatever that means, I’m apparently not.

      I get the impression that you are trying to paint me as the big bad wolf. You interrogate me, as if I have some evil hidden motives. The italics and the little "lol” is brought to court as evidence. I even have to swear to tell the truth.

      This is a forum where we discuss a fantasy series. Some posts are written in a hurry on a mobile phone, others go true a thoroughly process in front of my computer. I added a “LOL” to take the sting out of my respond but ended up (accidentally) pouring gasoline on the fire.

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    • Sometimes things are written in a hurry. Your points are taken. Thanks for clarifying.

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    • So, I started watching this show. It started with this guy who had a girlfriend at home checking out this blond with his buddy. Bunch of crazy stuff happened. Most of it was miscommunication and distrust. Cool show. Last I saw, this said guy and this blond had some sort of happily ever after. What show were you guys watching? Lmao

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    • 137.103.165.167 wrote: So, I started watching this show. It started with this guy who had a girlfriend at home checking out this hot blonde with his buddy. Bunch of crazy stuff happened, most of it was miscommunication and distrust. A lot of people dying, so much drama, lol. It was a cool show. Last I saw, this said guy and this hot blonde had some sort of happily ever after, kids and everything. What show were you guys watching? Lmao


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    • A Grimmster
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