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  • lets recap that actual physical harm done. when comparing the difference  between Juliette and Adalind's actions. 

    From the beginning Adalind was working for personal gain. We will start with the attempt to kill Mari. When she failed the reapers where brought in. She then poisons Hank for personal gain. Again she fails is stripped of her powers. the only way to save  Hanks life. Instead of retaliating against who took her powers she attacks his girl friend who would have died if Rosalee and Sean had not intervened. don't forget Adalind was retaliating for what Nick did to save Hanks life, preventing ADalind from being a murder.   


    For Juliette their is the bar scene. She beats up a guy that thinks buying her drinks makes him entitled to something. He got what he deserved, for the disrespect. yes Juliette caused harm, compared to having your mind toyed with. Can you really say the bar was worse.The mean looks and nasty comments can not cause physical harm. They are adults get over it. In the station baby mama drama so what. Juliette had reason to be upset. Again no physical harm. Juliette's retaliation by burning the trailer, even Juliette admitted that was a little out of control. I will even admit it was way out of control. Like Adalind attacking Juliette with the cat scratch. Both where the result of  misplaced anger. The difference Adalind almost killed someone. Her retaliation was against something done to save a life. Juliette destroyed possessions that we now see have been replaced for no other reason then being one angry female.   


    Lets take the spice shop. Juliette put Monroe in danger but it was never attempted murder. She had control of the gun. Nick has previously stated when she shot at Sean. "If she had wanted to shot him she would. She is a better shot then that". In wesenrein we saw Juliette has no problem pulling the trigger and delivering a deadly shot. If she was going to shot Monroe she would have shot him. Was it cruel to taunt them yes. The argument that they where her friends and the love of her life. When they refused to accept her as a hexenbiest. Insistent she suppress who she was, the friendship ended. Was she justified, that's and opinion. I only want facts. To consider if justified, It should be considered. It is a little much to expect someone to show tolerance and show understanding. When they have been changed permanently.To decide if  Juleitte not accepting their offer being right or wrong is subjective. The reason and Justification does not change, that no physical harm occurred. Maybe being slammed against the cabinets would hurt. But monroe is Blutbad, I think it would take more then being slammed to hurt him.  


    Let's admit when Juliette tormented them, it was out of anger. When Adalind tormented Nick and Hank. It was for personal gain. Lets look at how Adalind handles romantic rejection. She sleeps with Sean, has his child, then sells the child for her powers back. Sure she changed her mind. But she went as far as signing the contract. Even if it is void. She still signed it. showing intent. 


    Then we have the biggie. Kelly's death. Might I remind you. That all started with Adalind telling the Royals that Kelly had Diana. Diana was given to Kelly in the first place to protect her. Viktor vowed to kill all of them till he got Diana. That whole argument that Adalind would have been a good mother. or it is cruel taking a child from it's mother.  They all exclude the how where they going to keep Diana and not die. I can only figure the ones advocating Adalind should have keep Diana don't believe Viktor would have killed everyone. I think the dead leader of the varette might have a different opinion. After being lied to and tortured. Viktor buys Adalind new cloths now she is all on board to help get Kelly to come back to Portland. Remember Adalind was so intent on getting Kelly to return. She went to the house to beat the information about Kelly out of Juliette. Does Nick even realize he is now actually sleeping with the one who identified his mom. Set in motion that Juleitte was the key to contacting Kelly. The amazing part Adalind even tells Sean, Viktor is going to kill them once he has Diana. But she still continues to side with the Roylas. Till the Roylas throw her to a pissed off Juleitte. 


    With no where else to run, her fault or not. Juleitte turns to the Roylas and helps complete Adalinds plain. Here is another thing, Adalind is sleeping with Nick whose mother killed hers. Does she realize she is against the women that avenged her mothers death. That may not have been Juliette intent. But Juliette did kill Adalind's mother killer. 


    lets total the actual harm created. Emotional harm is subjective and can't be quantified. Adalind had two attempted murders for personal gain. Mari and Hank with hank suffering physical harm. You have the attempted murder on juliette as revenge against Nick. A case of misplaced anger that should have been directed toward Nick. sold her child. She recanted but she still followed through. Put into motion what ended in the death of Kelly. 


    Juliette she burnt the trailer, another example of misplaced anger. The result is lost of valuable property. Adalinds attack ended in physical harm to Juliette. Juliette only other act causing physical harm was participating in the completion of what Adalind started. 


    This entire post recounts events. It does not include any subjective acts. it only includes only things that have a physical documentable result. unlike the previous response there are no opinions are emotional justifications. Both of which would be subjective. Fact for fact finding Juliette worse has no merit.    

        

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    • Just like you said, both Juliette as Adalind, did horrible things I could say things that Juliette did was unforgivable, if she had done as personal gain with the intent to harm for pleasure, I think she did what done for revenge and to be mentally unstable, I'm not excusing what she did, but everything Adalind did was for of malice, for pleasure, initially she did all this thinking about her, and not say that the fault is only the Renard, because it is not true, I agree that now Adalind is different because of their children, while Juliette is "technically dead," so I am not able to understand all this anger by Juliette/Eve, for me, Adalind is much worse that Juliette, the problem is that Juliette cross lines she should not have crossed, but clearly you can see some regrets in their actions, while Adalind does not show any kind of regrets, the problem is that people are only evaluates them by severity of the sins of each one in season 4, see the four seasons again people...


      Many people, especially Adalind lovers, Nadalind shippers and Juliette/Eve haters, come to be disgusting, it offended the actress very cruel ways, as saying she is on the show because she is sleeping with the protagonist in real life and she is a bad actress without any talent, it is CRUEL, she is a reward actress, praised by many, she's been in countless movies and series, she is a talented actress, I think the problem is beauty. Because Claire Coffee is the most beautiful than Bitsie Tulloch, I agree, but it is no justification for treating the actress that way.

      Yes I agree, the Adalind character is a lot, but even more interesting that Juliette in first two seasons, Juliette was insignificant in season 1 and 2, but this changed in season 3, I enjoyed the Juliette of season 3, but the Adalind was my favorite character in the season 1-3, but in season 4 and season 5, Adalind is boring looks very Juliette in season 1 and 2.

      Please note I am not a "shipper", I am 'Nadalind Hater ", but that does not mean I want to Juliette and Nick together again, I mean, she DESERVES a SECOND CHANCE, Adalind already had what, a THIRD, FOURTH CHANCE!

      In conclusion, I think Adalind is much worse than Juliette, but I agree that Adalind is a good mother and deserves her daughter back.

      PS: Do not forget that initially Adalind wanted to sell her daughter to have the powers back.

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    • TheJorgon23 wrote:
      PS: Do not forget that initially Adalind wanted to sell her daughter to have the powers back.

      Yes initially, she could have just "pretended" to sell the babyso she can get both.  Remember she's a lawyer/hexenbeist. They are very good of deceiving people. She had to up her game since the people she was dealing with her powerful. 

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    • Yes both of these ladies did something horrible bunch of bitches lol and they both got screwed (literally and figuratively)!

      Trying not to repeat too much of what was said above posts…

      Adalind  

      -          She did was physical harm which in the end heals of course can be emotional too.  (Physical harm “CAN” be easier to heal that emotional)

      -          She worked for the Royals thus following their orders (yes maybe personal gain, but more harm could be done to her against them). She was also in love with Sean (personal).

      -          Her baby daughter got kidnap and what parent would not do anything to get their baby back? I’m sure “human nature” you’d want bad things to happen to the people responsible.  It’s easy for people to say she went too far, yes it’s a TV show but think about it in reality if this happened to you or to your parents.  

      - Nick's mom impaled her mom but in the end Kelly saved Adalind and Diana (a life for a life)

      -          The Royals did used her, pretending to have Diana, ordered her to take Nick’s powers. Then when she was in Austria she got jailed! Then later she found out Kelly has Diana, again she needs help to get her that’s why the Royals know.

      -        Her as a mother she wants to be better than what her mother was… When she talked to her dead mother, she will raise both kids properly.

      Juliette

      -          Well it’s no secret she got scorned!

      -          She always felt somewhat left out

      -          Burning the trailer was big 90% of the stuff there were irreplaceable, the weapons can be replaced.  This was very valuable to defeat and understand the Wesen world, thus help save lives and the gangs lives

      -          Started banging Sean and Kenneth (no harm done I guess lol)

      -          She could have “saved” Kelly from harm but didn’t do anything! Told Nick she didn’t know they were gonna kill her but heard she was being beaten up she has the power to stop them. Ignorance is Bliss!

      Nick

      -          The man in the middle of two lovely ladies lol

      -          He screwed up because he “HATED” what Juliette has become. Henerietta told him either kill her or accept her, just like she accepts him for being a Grimm!  He became emo and start whining like a damn baby! Boooo hooo

      -          He technically pushed Juliette away, all he can think of was “fixing” it

      -          He can’t even talk, look, kiss her when she’s woged! AND he said he loves her!

      -          He didn’t listen to Aunt Marie’s suggestion to leave her (of course easier said than done)

      -          He is and his family is the source of all the problems because of who and what he is and what he have the key/s!

      -          With all his failed efforts getting rid the Hexenbeist of his GF, guess what?!?! He still end up with another Hexenbeist and had a baby with her!  Doesn’t matter if it was planned or not, it’s how the universe works! Remember Synchronicity…

      -          He needs to have a “love interest”. Remember what Sean said “a Grimm on its own is dangers for everyone” well Wesen.

      -          He will do whatever is necessary to protect Adalind (unless she betrays him). He will not want baby Kelly to grow up not having a mom, because he did.

      -          He needs to have a wife/gf/fiancée that’s a strong Wesen a Hexenbeist/ Daemonfeuer or a Grimm.  Just so they can protect each other and or their kid.

      So the way I see it…

      Adalind – She was ordered/told by the Royals and her baby was stolen from her. What she did was “easier” to forgive and she told Nick if she can take it all back.

      -          What she did to Juliette – It was undone

      -          What she did to Hank – It was undone

      -          What she did to Nick – It was undone

      -          Tried to sell her baby – Never happened

      -          Tried to kill Aunt Marie because she was ordered by SEAN! – Can’t be undone but never killed her

      Juliette – For Nick/Juliette shippers good for you if this happens in real life that you can forgive the person responsible for your moms death.

      -          What she did to Nick’s mom – Can’t be undone

      -          What she did to the trailer – Can’t be undone

      -          Pulling the trigger to kill Monroe – Can’t be undone

      -          Tried to kill Nick at her own will – Can’t be undone

      I don’t really care who Nick ends up this is Grimm for all I care he could be alone, this is not a love story like how some people want to see it. Such as someone for Wu or Hank! Not everyone needs to be with someone.  It can be a liability.



      Maybe Nick needs to try a Daemonfeuer J.

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    • Adalind didn't do any of that out of malice, except for what she did to juliette. She had her reasons, wrong reasons, but still there was a purpose, and she was forced to sign the contract, the gipsy grabed her hand and putted it on the paper. Juliette, on the other hand, went completely out of control after she finded out adalind was pregnant. Threatening Monroe, because if she wanted he would be dead, lure kelly and Diana to a tramp, burning the trailer and trying to kill Nick in the season finale (not in self defense). If you don't look at the "why" maybe Adalind was the worst one, but if you bear it in mind I think Juliette after being and hexenbiest was way worst

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    • 185.87.98.154 wrote: Adalind didn't do any of that out of malice, except for what she did to juliette. She had her reasons, wrong reasons, but still there was a purpose, and she was forced to sign the contract, the gipsy grabed her hand and putted it on the paper. Juliette, on the other hand, went completely out of control after she finded out adalind was pregnant. Threatening Monroe, because if she wanted he would be dead, lure kelly and Diana to a tramp, burning the trailer and trying to kill Nick in the season finale (not in self defense). If you don't look at the "why" maybe Adalind was the worst one, but if you bear it in mind I think Juliette after being and hexenbiest was way worst

      Thank you, whomever you're for making sense of the situation and for the record, I agree with you!

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    • I agree too. In addition, Adalind is willing to give up being a hexenbiest now for the sake of her son and her budding relationship with Nick. Once Juliette embraced being a hexenbiest, she threw away her relationships with Nick and all those around her. In other words, when it came to choosing between those they care for verses hexenbiest power, they made opposite choices. So it's no wonder now that Nick wanted to "bury" Juliette and that he won't let her being alive/Eve affect his relationships with Adalind and Kelly.

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    • I personally don't give a crap about Nick being with Juliette or Adalind and I don't care of they both die heck they could kill other key characters.  For as long as they do it very well then I'm good. 

      However the current story and situation, Nick and Adalind are possibly trying to make things work without rushing. 

      Lots of love sick people here that still wants Nick and Juliette to get back (nothing wrong with it), but sorry to break your heart, but that may never happen.  That would be a horrible story line, regardless how you do it. It will show indecisiveness, story goes in circles.  The only way they could possilby do this is go back in time AKA time travel! Nick already made it clear that he wants to "burry" her and told Adalind regardless nothing will ever change AKA he will never go back to "Juliette/Eve". 

      Could you imagine if Kelly was Juliette's son... Mom/Dad what happend to Grandma? Um.... 

      Juliette lovers can try to justify everything she did but it will never change the fact that she got Nick's mom killed and the fact she "could have" saver her but she didn't.  Some people say here they don't care, IF this happens to you let me know how it feels and tell me you don't care :). We all have animal instincts. 

      They were already pushing it on how Nick and Adalind got together. Which was very interesting, I don't think theres a better way,  even how they brought "Juliette/Eve" back. 

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    • Brimmski wrote:
      I personally don't give a crap about Nick being with Juliette or Adalind and I don't care of they both die heck they could kill other key characters.  For as long as they do it very well then I'm good. 

      However the current story and situation, Nick and Adalind are possibly trying to make things work without rushing. 

      Lots of love sick people here that still wants Nick and Juliette to get back (nothing wrong with it), but sorry to break your heart, but that may never happen.  That would be a horrible story line, regardless how you do it. It will show indecisiveness, story goes in circles.  The only way they could possilby do this is go back in time AKA time travel! Nick already made it clear that he wants to "burry" her and told Adalind regardless nothing will ever change AKA he will never go back to "Juliette/Eve". 

      Could you imagine if Kelly was Juliette's son... Mom/Dad what happend to Grandma? Um.... 

      Juliette lovers can try to justify everything she did but it will never change the fact that she got Nick's mom killed and the fact she "could have" saver her but she didn't.  Some people say here they don't care, IF this happens to you let me know how it feels and tell me you don't care :). We all have animal instincts. 

      They were already pushing it on how Nick and Adalind got together. Which was very interesting, I don't think theres a better way,  even how they brought "Juliette/Eve" back. 


      I agree with you, because I see only one way to bring Nick/Juliette back, but I doubt seriously what I'm thinking will happen, so ... :/ Yap, "Nickette" is dead... But in my opinion, "Nadalind" is much worse, Nick is a Grimm and is better alone, Grimms don't have happy endings, after all... :D

      But let me make one thing clear, yes no matter what happens, Juliette is indirectly responsible for the death of Nick's mom, BUT, I repeat, BUT, let me make some things clear, you say that something happen in real life, first this is a fantasy show, I forgive the person who did hurt my mother??, honestly, we need strong reasons to do but review some facts, it all started as usual with Adalind, always making trouble for everyone as always, she thinks an apology application solves everything! First we Adalind's Rape, Yes RAPE, and likewise we have the unffair of Nick, Juliette was transformed into a monster because of Nick and Adalind, she was unable to control his powers and emotions because of the transformation, I WILL REPEAT ONE THING, IT iS IMPOSSIBLE PEOPLE CHANGE OVERNIGHT, Nick rejected it and tried to "fix" Juliette instead of helping her, wait, I say, Nick unknowingly pregnant Adalind, After you have sacrificed yourself for the person you love, and run the risk of taking a potion knowing that there could be side effects, I wanted to know how a person would react in real life, after being betrayed, abandoned, turned into a monster and find out that the person who loves get pregnant another woman, not to mention the natural behavior of Hexenbiest and corruption made by the Hexenbiest's spirit, and the fact that she was mentally unstable, LET'S BE HONEST NOBODY PREVIEW THESE BEHAVIOR COME SWEET AND LOVING JULIETTE...

      Wait a moment, Nick's mom is SAINT?!

      Nick's mom tried to kill friends of Nick when he saw them for the first time, waiting Nick's mom KILLED Adalind's mom, yap ...

      And do not forget a scene EVE SAVE ALL Scoobies LIVES!!!

      IF I forgive the person who killed my mother, depending on the circumstances YES, of course it is a wound that is marked you for the rest of your life, but all that people know see is the death of Kelly, the show is much more than her death...

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    • Aside from Nick's mom trying to kill Moroe and Rosalee, Truble tried to kill Monroe too!

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    • If she wanted to have Monroe killed, she had done...

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    • I'm inclined to say that Adalind is worse than Juliette because the former is in her right state of mind when she does bad things.

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    • Short answer: YES. Juliette is worse than Adalind.

      Long Answer: Juliette has not tried to fight the hexenbiest instinct, in the least. Adalind, for her part, got her powers back, but getting them back didn't turn her into a cruel person. She actually started becoming a better person when they came back. While Juliette's character strived to prove that Hexenbiests are inherently bad people, Adalind's proved that they are not.

      Honestly, I've never liked Juliette. She went from being milque-toast to having her own (terrible) amnesia storyline, to suddenly being OP hexenbiest. I feel like the show TRIES to play up sympathy for her, but... I just can't find it in me to have sympathy for her. Every storyline they do with Juliette makes me cringe.

      Adalind, on the other hand--she was a Hexenbiest her whole life. She was raised in it, but that did not make her an entirely bad person. Clearly, she was a hard worker; she became a lawyer, and when she came back to Portland, her firm wanted her back. Meanwhile, almost no one cares that Juliette is 'missing'. She did care about Renard--and he was just using her. The Royals were just using her. When her powers were stripped, her mother disowned her. And when she got them back, when she was showing no signs of wanting to harm anyone, the 'good guys' took her daughter. That was cruel of them, to lead her to safety and then take her child away because they made the decision that Adalind was unfit. That was not their decision to make.

      Juliette has been a downward spiral, but Adalind has been a consistent driving force of the show--good or evil. I'm not liking where they are taking her relationship with Nick, but that's not because of Adalind. 

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    • ^ This exactly.

      This sums up why I like Adalind more than Juliette. Adalind MUST get her Hexenbiest powers back, I feel like she will, but it's a matter of when and how. 

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    • Aleebsi wrote:
      Short answer: YES. Juliette is worse than Adalind.

      Long Answer: Juliette has not tried to fight the hexenbiest instinct, in the least. Adalind, for her part, got her powers back, but getting them back didn't turn her into a cruel person. She actually started becoming a better person when they came back. While Juliette's character strived to prove that Hexenbiests are inherently bad people, Adalind's proved that they are not.

      Honestly, I've never liked Juliette. She went from being milque-toast to having her own (terrible) amnesia storyline, to suddenly being OP hexenbiest. I feel like the show TRIES to play up sympathy for her, but... I just can't find it in me to have sympathy for her. Every storyline they do with Juliette makes me cringe.

      Adalind, on the other hand--she was a Hexenbiest her whole life. She was raised in it, but that did not make her an entirely bad person. Clearly, she was a hard worker; she became a lawyer, and when she came back to Portland, her firm wanted her back. Meanwhile, almost no one cares that Juliette is 'missing'. She did care about Renard--and he was just using her. The Royals were just using her. When her powers were stripped, her mother disowned her. And when she got them back, when she was showing no signs of wanting to harm anyone, the 'good guys' took her daughter. That was cruel of them, to lead her to safety and then take her child away because they made the decision that Adalind was unfit. That was not their decision to make.

      Juliette has been a downward spiral, but Adalind has been a consistent driving force of the show--good or evil. I'm not liking where they are taking her relationship with Nick, but that's not because of Adalind. 

      How did Adalind become a better person after she got her powers back? If you mean that she became more motherly and treated her children right, then sure; but as for treatment of other characters, I sincerely think she was lacking in this department. She did tell Renard to kill Nick when she escaped his place to Renard's after coming back to Portland with Diana for example. Then she decided to strip Nick's powers away to get her child back. I don't think this was justified even if she was trying to be a good mother; her being subsequently double crossed by the Royals is just desserts for her.

      In the latest episode (100), Adalind said that being a Hexenbiest does things to you and your mind, and that she doesn't want it back. This attitude is a far cry from when she tried to sell her only daughter on the Black Market to get her powers back when she first lost them however, this shows that Juliette's downward spiral was completely normal. What do you expect of someone who wasn't born a Hexenbiest?

      As for Adalind losing Diana, Adalind should have realised that with a child like Diana, then hiding her away is probably the best option for her. Yes it was sad and I actually felt sorry for Adalind then, but as a mother, she needs to understand what is best for her child and not put her own selfish needs to be with her in the face of danger first.

      Since episode 100, Adalind is getting her powers back and it's like Juliette 2.0 all over again. Can't wait for the games to begin :D

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    • 87.210.153.79 wrote:
      ^ This exactly.

      This sums up why I like Adalind more than Juliette. Adalind MUST get her Hexenbiest powers back, I feel like she will, but it's a matter of when and how. 

      Amen! could not have said it better myself! Love the show and the characters immensely.

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    • Being an Hexenbiest means have a part of you that is beyond your control. 

      The Hexenbiest search your worst defects and power all them. Your sefishness, thrist for power, your ambitions, your agressiviness. Both women, Adalind in the past and Juliette now are like that . Their human form lose in their alter ego. But Adalind is feeling now one thing that seems is the only one in stop her evilness like Hexenbiest; the motherhood. 

      I think that the fact of have her two children together safe with her, or maybe the only idea of get that turn her in happy to all of them: to Adalind the human and to Adalind, the hexenbiest. Is a thing that place to her Dr. Jekyll and  her Mr. Hyde. And Juliette under the Eve´s name is feeling the same, she is not an human, she´s not a zombie, and she feels that double nature on her, but the Hexenbiest was more powerful than the human when she helped in kill to Mama Grimm. 

      Juliette is worst, because she can not stop, he does not want to and she why should? now she´s good working for the HW, but in the finale her humantiy was coming back again. 

      Again the two sides of the Hexenbiest. For Juliette all possible redemption is late. 

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    • Adalind last act was to try and kidnap Juliette by force. If Jullette had not been a hexenbiest Juliette again would have been a victim. Even with all that Juliette could not bring herself to actually harm Adalind. Where Adalind was upset that she failed to kidnap Juliette. Juliette was upset with herself for trying to kill Adalind.  Even in the police station Juliette who have have hurt Adalind did not. There is nothing Nick could have done to stop her. Yet Adalind was not satisfied with Nick trying to resolve the situation. She had to insite Juliette anger. 

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    • Adalind was 100% right at the police station because it takes very little to hurt a baby still inside its mother. The last thing she wanted was Juliettte's anger. Juliette could have died if she started a fight at the station because with so many guns she would have lost. Look at what happen at the end of season 5 when she fought at the police station.  Please remember without baby grimms there are no future grimms. Please note I like Eve and hope she can create an organization that can help the wesen/grimm future.  I can forgive both them if they can focus on helping the future and not look to the past. Adalind can best help with raising both of her children the right way and she will need her powers to protect them.  Nick can support both women with their goals, please stop looking at the past, it prevents making the future better.

      MaryLikesGrimm

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    • Under what theory would Juliette have lost. Only twice have we seen her get physical. Once with Adalind. The second was with Conrad. Yet there are a lot of dead wesen that prove she does not need to be near you to kill you.  I have said before had Juliette wanted to she could have turned to walk out flick her wrist and Adalind would have dropped dead on the floor.  Even with all of the officers there what would they have arrested her on. sure Nick would know what happened. But like his other wesen cases. He would have no way to prove it. 

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    • Hey Syscrash53

      it's spelled were,- not where!!! ,


      and there, not their,

      Jesus,,,-get a Thesaurus..

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    • Actually, Juliette is worse as Kehrseite-Schlich-Kennen and Hexenbiest compared to Adalind.

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    • i think thisd whole post is forgetting the fact that julliette was acting completly out of character when she became a hexenbesit. adalind hexen or not did a lot of damage regardless. if julliette had been made human agian we could have seen her actions following and seen her reactions to it and then a proper comparsion could be done between the two. 

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    • When Juliette did become Kehrseite-Schlich-Kennen, she went overdrive with Wesen and she was blurring out Nick is a Grimm, Nick is a Grimm. Did you hear that Nick is a Grimm? When you think about Juliette is Grimm Iris.

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    • Being an Hexenbiest means have a part of you that is beyond your control. 

      The Hexenbiest search your worst defects and power all them. Your sefishness, thrist for power, your ambitions, your agressiviness. Both women, Adalind in the past and Juliette now are like that . Their human form lose in their alter ego. But Adalind is feeling now one thing that seems is the only one in stop her evilness like Hexenbiest; the motherhood. 

      I think that the fact of have her two children together safe with her, or maybe the only idea of get that turn her in happy to all of them: to Adalind the human and to Adalind, the hexenbiest. Is a thing that place to her Dr. Jekyll and  her Mr. Hyde. And Juliette under the Eve´s name is feeling the same, she is not an human, she´s not a zombie, and she feels that double nature on her, but the Hexenbiest was more powerful than the human when she helped in kill to Mama Grimm. 

      Why should motherhood be used to cloak Adalind's sins?

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    • Well, it's not like Adalind had a choice.

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    • Motherhood does not equal goodness. Look at the epilogue. Adalind's out killing wesen with the others.

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    • No. That did come after. She did mention her father did abandoned her and her mother when she was 4 years old.

      But her mother was not always around then Adalind was forced to mostly take care of herself or starve. After that she was manipulated by her mother and Sean, but later she was disowned by her mother and then kicked out of the house.

      She was hunted by the Royal Families and the Resistance for her pregnancy and her child was taken from her and her second pregnancy was not easy and hunted by Juliette and the Black Claw. All does cause a traumatic lingering effects.

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    • I forgot to say that Zerstörer wanted to rape Diana countless times while kill her son.

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    • Diana being kidnapped by Nick and company was inexcusable.

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    • But her mother was not always around then Adalind was forced to mostly take care of herself or starve. After that she was manipulated by her mother and Sean, but later she was disowned by her mother and then kicked out of the house.

      When did Adalind say that her mother was never around? 

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    • You can watch on Season 5 on the episode Maiden Quest.

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    • Wonder why then that Adalind says she hasn't done much cooking. You'd think if Catherine was never around, Adalind would know a lot more about cooking, having to do it all of the time.

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    • She did say to had ordered pizza a lot so maybe she ordered various food.

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    • I guess then that Catherine did care for her. She apparently left her money so she wouldn't starve.

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    • I doubt it. I think it was easier for Catherine, because she threw out Adalind out of the house.

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    • A lot of posters feel that it was so awful for Catherine to throw Adalind out. What's forgotten is Adalind was already close to 30, had her own place, her own job and was quite successful. I don't think Adalind was living there, but even if she were, Catherine can throw her out. It was Catherine's house. She doesn't owe Adalind a thing.

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    • Well parents are supposed to have unconditional love and support for their children.

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    • Who says Catherine didn't? Booting Adalind out doesn't mean she didn't love her daugher. Sometimes parents just get sick and tired of their childrens' antics.  Adalind must have been somewhat troublesome because at Catherine's graveside, she admitted she wasn't the greatest daughter.

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    • Well, Catherine and Sean did turn on her daughter when she lost her Hexenbiest Side after her battle with Nick which they did send on. She was called useless, just another pretty girl.

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    • Renard called her useless, "just another pretty girl". Adalind later said she hated Renard. They were two people in a relationship who found they despised one another. Renard can be sarcastic with her. Adalind can hate him back. I'm not saying it's the greatest thing between these two but as two consenting adults they can do what they want as far as loving or hating one another is concerned.

      I get why Catherine was ticked off at Adalind. Getting the key was supposed to pay off a debt Catherine owed to Renard. Adalind  failed. It wasn't just a minor failure, it was catastrophic. I assume Adalind agreed to get the key. She didn't act like she was forced into it. Renard's remark was crass to Adalind, but in a way, he is right. She is no longer of any use to him.

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    • Well, Catherine's lost by throwing out Adalind of the house causing a chain of reactions. Because she managed surviving one Grimm and but got arrogant to try and kill another Grimm. She should had tried to patch up her relationship with Adalind then she would had a chance to be alive instead of getting impaled on a shard of a mirror.

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    • Catherine had every right to try and kill Kelly. Kelly was in her house! And from a reality perspective, why didn't Adalind try to make amends with her mother? Adalind knew she was in the wrong, she knew she failed Catherine. 

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    • Nick was there to ask about Adalind and he did leave and Catherine did not attack him. I doubt Kelly would had hurt Catherine after meeting Monroe and Roselee, all of them were in the same car and Kelly said she does not mind.

      Why does it needs to be Adalind? Catherine had not much of maternal instinct, because she could have picked up a phone and called Adalind. Besides, Adalind did make her amends on here.

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    • I very much doubt that Catherine ignored Adalind for years and years and suddenly called her one day to ask her to eliminate a debt to Renard. In other words, Catherine had to have enough contact with her daughter to be able to make such a request. Adalind had to be comfortable enough with her mother to accept the task. 

      Why does it need to be Adalind? Because Adalind screwed it up big time. 

      I don't think you can call Adalind making amends in the cemetery. For one thing, she was about to use her mother's remains in a spell. For another, Catherine isn't able to respond, being dead and all.

      Kelly had no business in Catherine's house. What more can I say?

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    • I have nothing to say for the moment.

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    • If you feel like debating later, here's something to consider. You mentioned that Catherine should have shown unconditional love to her daughter. What do you think of Adalind, not showing unconditional love to Diana?

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    • You can watch here. and you will see how much Adalind has unconditional love and support for Diana.

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    • But consider this. Had Adalind not gone to the gypsies to sell Diana and threatened aborting her if she didn't get what she wanted, how is that showing unconditional love? 

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    • How is Juliette any better? Yes, Adalind has done horrible things, she did redeemed herself? She had opportunities to go and leave everything?

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    • Well, I'm getting to that. Here's the thing I have noticed, particularly with regard to fans who favor Adalind:

      Adalind has redeemed herself by having Nick's baby. She got Diana back, not through her own means. Renard got Diana back for her. So she's a mother to both Diana and Kelly now. She's redemed by virtue of being a mother. That's it.

      Juliette became a hexenbiest, not because she went over to Austria to talk to the gypsies, but because she became the last ingredient in a spell **to give Nick back his Grimm**.  

      Because she was a hexenbiest, Juliette burned down Nick's trailer and betrayed Kelly. **Now, keep in mind that Juliette is never going to be forgiven for this, no matter what she does**.

      Juliette gets kidnapped, beaten up, tortured and subsequently becomes Eve because? HW needs a hexenbiest to do their bidding.

      Eve saves Nick's life and those of the scoobies as well. She aids HW in their fight against Black Claw.

      Adalind is forgiven by virtue of being the madonna of motherhood.

      Juliette is never forgiven.

      Worse? Chalk it up to fan favorites. 

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    • I think the reasons to how there are fans that favor to Adalind is.

      • First Of All: Juliette was kidnapped by the Dämonfeuers where both Nick as well Monroe did risked their lives to save her.
      • Second Of All: She had memory loss and when her memory was coming back it almost make her insane.
      • Third Of All: She had the dangerous lust. Some fans has no more sympathy for Juliette, after a third time she should have got the hint that she was not safe in Portland.

      Adalind had no choice and was forced to obey because Victor lied to have her daughter. She did not have a choice to take Nick's Grimm Powers.

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    • Okay, your first point:

      Question: How does being Juliette being kidnapped by the Damonfeuers make her worse than Adalind?

      Second point:

      Question: The memory loss and subsequent hallucinations were the result of recovering from being poisoned by Adalind. Keep in mind that Adalind was not forced into poisoning Juliette. You favor Adalind. Do you favor her poisoning people simply for no reason? 

      Third point: 

      Question: You speak of the dangerous lust, but wasn't that cured? 

      I think your point that Juliette should have gotten the hint that she was not safe in Portland is an interesting one. But, the drawback to the argument is that you're relying solely on Juliette to make the decision and then subsequently leave Portland. You're not taking into consideration that Nick never suggested it, the scoobies didn't offer it as a solution. Juliette loved Nick and Nick was a Grimm. According to the series premise, he is the one who's supposed to protect the good. The premise was never one of being forced to leave if danger was afoot.

      I get that Adalind had no choice in the matter, so she was forced to de-Grimm Nick. But I find it interesting that fans of Adalind seem to favor her actions over the main character's powers getting taken away by deceit and manipulation.

      Fans are continually outraged over Juliette refusing Nick's proposal, even though she had some very, very good reasons for doing so.

      One woman gets excused because she's forced into a situation that mutilates the main character. She is promptly forgiven because Nick gets his powers back.  Another woman restores him to his former self, but can never be forgiven because of the side effects she suffers as the result.

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      • First Of All:

      Because Juliette told Nick that she is not sure she can tolerate the stress of Nick's job as a cop, She does not want to make a decision the same night, it was something they both needed to think about.

      • Second Of All:

      Adalind did hurt Juliette and Hank and Wu for the key.

      • Third Of All:

      After Sean and she did get cured, well people can't go and say you should leave Portland. You are not safe. Something people should decide by themselves and leave.

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    • Point One; Juliette's tolerance of Nick's job was based on him being a Grimm, not a cop. The Damonfeuers would never have kidnapped her if Nick were not a Grimm.

      Point Two: You're right. Adalind hurt both Hank and Wu by poisoning them, but she was working for Renard and Hank was needed as part of their plan. Wu was accidentally poisoned as fall out. Adalind did not target him.

      However, she deliberately targeted Juliette for no reason. Juliette did not have the key, she didn't even know about the key. She was an innocent. As a fan of Adalind, what do you think of her poisoning Juliette for absolutely no reason at all?

      Again, I do find this point about Juliette leaving Portland because of the danger to her an interesting one. It does leave a gaping hole in your theory though. Juliette is not a key factor in any of this key or Diana business. To clarify, everything could have happened as usual without her.

      The only thing that would not have happened? Nick would have lost his Grimm, permanently.

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      • First Of All: Juliette did not know Nick was a Grimm.
      • Second Of All: Adalind had a reason, Juliette was Nick's girlfriend.
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    • Juliette didn't know that Nick was a Grimm...at first. However, she knew he was keeping something from her, and that something was the cause of her stress. You know as well as I do that that something had nothing to do with him being a cop, but everything to do with him being a Grimm.

      Second, Adalind had no reason. While she has been given slack for being a pawn or acting under someone's direction, this was all her own doing. Juliette had never harmed her and didn't even know her. 

      But regardless of that, your solution that Juliette simply leave town is not a good or practical solution. Marie's warning to Nick doesn't just include good wesen. It includes good people as well. If he can't keep his own girlfriend safe, perhaps it's he who should be considering whether or not he should stay in Portland.

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    • The reason why Sean did to help Juliette with in the first place, so Nick couldn't leave and stay in Portland as he wanted to brag to the Resistance about he has a Grimm.

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    • I still don't see where Juliette leaving Portland solves anything. While protecting her has not been a priority for Nick, she is safer in Portland than somewhere else alone and vulnerable. Adalind tried to murder her for no reason. If Juliette relocated, there's nothing that would stop Adalind from pursuing and murdering her. She is vicious and will do anything she can to get what she wants.

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    • Dragonfly82
      Dragonfly82 removed this reply because:
      13:40, February 4, 2020
      This reply has been removed
    • Lucille55
      Lucille55 removed this reply because:
      not conducive to the discussion
      17:32, February 4, 2020
      This reply has been removed
    • Adalind went after Juliette in retrobution for Sean abandoning her in his pursuit of control of a grimm and she did it again later to try and force the gang to reveal Kelly's whereabouts, otherwise Juliette on her own was not the cause/reason for Adalind's actions. She was nothing more that a tool. If you took Juliette out of the equation by her leaving Nick and moving away, Adalind would have had no reason to go after her on either occassion  because it would not get her what she wanted, payback against Nick and Sean and later a reunion with Diana. If Nick started dating some other random woman, I'm sure villain Adalind would have acted the same towards her because her real target was always to hurt Nick by hurting the person he was dating. The Adalind of S5 & S6 is not like the first so her actions, wants and motivations are vastly different.

      Both Juliette and Adalind acted horribly at some stage of their lives for whatever reason we saw in the end, they both got themselves together and moved in a positive direction. They may not have started in the same place, Juliette as the good girlfriend of the protagonist of the show that suddenly went bad and Adalind as the antagonist who decided she wanted something good for herself. One can't let only the past actions define the character as they are in the present.

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    • Regarding the cat scratch, Adalind had no reason to attack and poison Juliette.

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    • Lucille55 wrote:
      Regarding the cat scratch, Adalind had no reason to attack and poison Juliette.

      Like I said, Adalind attacked Juliette as retribution for Nick taking away her abilities and by extension, for Sean abandoning her as we saw with the "cure" to wake her from her coma. Addalind went after Aunt Marie too but she died. Apart from the Nick connection, Juliette could have easily remained off Adalind's radar. Adalind had nothing personal against Juliette, the individual, except to use her as a tool to hurt Nick and Sean as much as she could. I'm not saying Adalind didn't harm Juliette, I'm merely pointing out the context thereof. It wasn't about Juliette but about the men that Adalind felt had harmed her and getting back at them.

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    • Rpmaluki wrote:
      Like I said, Adalind attacked Juliette as retribution for Nick taking away her abilities and by extension, for Sean abandoning her as we saw with the "cure" to wake her from her coma. Addalind went after Aunt Marie too but she died. Apart from the Nick connection, Juliette could have easily remained off Adalind's radar. Adalind had nothing personal against Juliette, the individual, except to use her as a tool to hurt Nick and Sean as much as she could. I'm not saying Adalind didn't harm Juliette, I'm merely pointing out the context thereof. It wasn't about Juliette but about the men that Adalind felt had harmed her and getting back at them.

      I get what youre saying. Adalind's angry and she feels Nick and Sean are responsible for the loss of her powers. However, it's not the fault of either of these two men. It's Adalind's own shortsightedness that caused her downfall. That's not a reason for attacking Juliette. 

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    • Lucille55 wrote:
      Rpmaluki wrote:
      Like I said, Adalind attacked Juliette as retribution for Nick taking away her abilities and by extension, for Sean abandoning her as we saw with the "cure" to wake her from her coma. Addalind went after Aunt Marie too but she died. Apart from the Nick connection, Juliette could have easily remained off Adalind's radar. Adalind had nothing personal against Juliette, the individual, except to use her as a tool to hurt Nick and Sean as much as she could. I'm not saying Adalind didn't harm Juliette, I'm merely pointing out the context thereof. It wasn't about Juliette but about the men that Adalind felt had harmed her and getting back at them.
      I get what youre saying. Adalind's angry and she feels Nick and Sean are responsible for the loss of her powers. However, it's not the fault of either of these two men. It's Adalind's own shortsightedness that caused her downfall. That's not a reason for attacking Juliette. 

      No one has a right to harm another, Adalind was a villain (at the time) and doing villain things by targeting innocent people even in her bid to "punish" those that hurt her. Sean bears some responsibility for what happened to Adalind. Nick though, was just being a grimm and had to save Hank's life but that didn't stop Adalind irrationally targeting him through his girlfriend. Think of how Hexenbiest Juliette and Kenneth eliminated Nick's neighbours to trap Kelly, innocents are always collateral for villains.

      Adalind was basically following Sean's orders and in the process lost her abilities then instead of understanding, he abandoned her and insulted her. I don't blame her going after him. Juliette is collateral, someone to use against Sean AND Nick. That is how Adalind figured she'd do the most harm by binding him in a deadly obssession spell with the girlfriend of the grimm he was trying to recruit to his side. It could only end horribly, with either Juliette killing him or Nick, lucky for him he sold Adalind further down the river by laying blame for everything that happened since the beginning of the show on her shoulders and aligning himself with the gang for Nick to eventually broke the spell.

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    • Sean doesn't bear any responsibility for what happened to Adalind. She's an adult, she went after Nick, she failed miserably and paid dearly for it. She's simply a jilted woman who struck out at an innocent person. 

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    • What answers you are looking for? You are deeply dissecting to have?

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    • Are you talking to me? 

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    • You are not happy from the answers that were there after many users tried giving to you. While continuing to be asking for more answers. What are you hoping to hear?

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    • May I ask you a question now?

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    • Fine, go ask. But I can almost be sure it would be why many fans considers Adalind to be redeemed while not Juliette and you want to know why not?

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    • I have noticed this for quite some time now. Why are you so obsessed with singling me out?

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    • I am not singling you out, I tried to help you, and many fans have tried to help you, while you seem to assume people have first hand knowledge of the Grimm World while refusing to give you. If people can not provide the understanding you want. Move on.


      If you want to make a assumption that people don't treat you with respect, when they can't provide the understanding you want. That's up to you.

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    • Just the type of response I thought you would give. 

      Let's put an end to this right now. I respectfully suggest that you refrain from asking asinine questions (that you really don't want to know the answer to anyway) OR attempt to figure out what I'm thinking when I'm  responding. After all, if you're not debating, there really is no need for you to come into the debate, is there? 

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    • Lucille55 wrote:
      Sean doesn't bear any responsibility for what happened to Adalind. She's an adult, she went after Nick, she failed miserably and paid dearly for it. She's simply a jilted woman who struck out at an innocent person. 

      Adalind didn't willy nilly go after Nick for no reason. Sean wanted Nick's key, sent Adalind after Aunt Marie, then Hank. He bears some responsibilty. Half of the bad things to happen in S1 was Sean's doing. Adalind was his lackey because he wanted to keep his hands clean. You can't absolve him just because Adalind is an adult. They all are and that didn't stop Sean from abusing his authority and using people to serve his selfish purposes. Adalind worked for Sean because her mother owed him and for whatever reason Adalind couldn't simply tell her mom to go jump and sort out her own debt with Sean. They both used and then abondoned Adalind when she lost her abilities while doing what they wanted her to do. Adalind's actions were not in isolation because it's what SHE wanted, she was still following orders from the bastard royal in Portland. How she went about doing Sean's bidding doesn't negate his part of the responsibility just because he didn't hold her down when Nick bled into her mouth.

      Even the justice system in real life doesn't separate the perpertrator of a crime from the conspirator. Often time they are both deemed equally guilty. Sean is not guiltless by any stretch of the imagination for the events that spanned the first season just because he wasn't the one that physically went after Nick's family and friends. Juliette merely paid the price for things that he initially orchestrated.

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    • Rpmaluki wrote: Adalind didn't willy nilly go after Nick for no reason. Sean wanted Nick's key, sent Adalind after Aunt Marie, then Hank. He bears some responsibilty. Half of the bad things to happen in S1 was Sean's doing. Adalind was his lackey because he wanted to keep his hands clean. You can't absolve him just because Adalind is an adult. They all are and that didn't stop Sean from abusing his authority and using people to serve his selfish purposes. Adalind worked for Sean because her mother owed him and for whatever reason Adalind couldn't simply tell her mom to go jump and sort out her own debt with Sean. They both used and then abondoned Adalind when she lost her abilities while doing what they wanted her to do. Adalind's actions were not in isolation because it's what SHE wanted, she was still following orders from the bastard royal in Portland. How she went about doing Sean's bidding doesn't negate his part of the responsibility just because he didn't hold her down when Nick bled into her mouth.

      Nowhere did I say that Renard doesn't bear some responsibility in this. He's not absolved. But his task to Adalind in order to remove the debt was to get the key. You talk about Adalind being Sean's lackey, but nowhere did he tell her, "oh by the way, if you fail and lose your powers, you have a perfect right to take revenge. I approve. Please go after Juliette". 

      Renard is to blame for a lot of things, but he is not to blame for Adalind going after Juliette. That's like saying Nick is to blame because Juliette burned down the trailer.  

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    • A Grimmster
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