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  • In the last two episodes we've seen both characters show some degree of change between them. I wouldn't say this change is going to be a romantic one, but maybe a firendly one especially since their both having a child toghether. I honestly don't know where the writers are going with this since both of them are having a child toghether, we might see a degree of change in Season 5 when the child is born.

    What do you all think, give me your opinions on what you hace seen in the last two episodes.

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    • I think their gonna pull a full Damon and Elena were the protagonist falls in love with the person they hate.

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    • Vegeta ssj5 wrote: I think their gonna pull a full Damon and Elena were the protagonist falls in love with the person they hate.

      Man, it does feels like Delena from the Vampire Diaries!

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    • Personally I want Nick to end up with trubel(now for all those people who say Nick is to old for her remember Sean was 15 years older than adalind) rather than adalind or Juliet but the way things are going i bet he is gonna end up with adalind.

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    • I would love a Nick/Adalind couple. Seriously from the begining of the series, maybe 1st episode I thought he was going to end up with her, because they were like nemesis they had to become a couple. Plus they turned Adalind in human now so she can not turn anymore, and so be a perfect good girl nice ans sweet, thus she and Nick could form a normal couple. It could be a perfect love story, but they can not be together yet, they need to fight and kill Juliette (that bitch) first :D

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    • Nick and Adalind certainly do seem to be getting friendlier at the moment, and to me the trailers suggest Nick is going to seek revenge on Juliette so he won't be pursuing her much longer.

      It is certainly possible that Adalind and Nick may develop romantic feelings for one another, though it would be awkward for them both at first. I suspect Adalind will be the one to fall in love first, given that Nick is protecing her and their unborn son, and he has not betrayed or tricked her. And I definitely think she won't turn on him now because of their son; she only took his powers away because she wanted Diana back, and she also said she wants to raise her children right, so if she sleeps with Nick again I'm certain he'l be safe. But he will need more time before it is possible to fall in love with her.

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    • Would like to know how he and his friends reacts, when they knows the whole truth.

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    • (P) Macabros77 wrote: Would like to know how he and his friends reacts, when they knows the whole truth.


      Man if Nick and adalind do fall in love imagine Monroes, hanks wu's and Rosales reaction to it.

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    • It is hard to judge Adalind. Until Kenneth threw Adalind out she had no intentions of raising her child with Nick. They even did a fake promo of Adalind imagining them together.  Even after being thrown out Adalind was still being Adalind.

      She minipulated Nick to get his protection. She started with appealing to Nick to protect his child. That didn't work she tries I can help Juliette.

      In the station when Nick was trying to calm the situation. Adalind throws gas on the fire by demanding Juliette leave.

      Adalind goes through a heart warming speech about how she has been wronged, But she still did not address her part in what happened. Adalind says her mother through her out. That not the whole story.  Adalind never had a good relation with her mother. She had left her mother a while ago. Her problem with her mother is Adalind will not listen.  

      Then we are at Adalind giving up her powers. There are two many things about that act that are suspect. It is an unheard of process. She gives up her powers in the hopes Juliette gives up hers. Even though Adalind mentioned Juliette is accepting what she is. But the part that really throws a wrench in Adalind giving up her powers. There where two spirits. Could one have been her child. Speaking of child who takes some unknown potion while pregnant if you truly only have the childs well being in mind.  

      It is more likly that Adalind needed the gangs help to make a potion that would allow her to combine with her mothers spirit. 

      So either the writers are doing a poor job at getting use to believe Adalind wants redemption or it is another one of  "Adalind saving her a** " moves. 

      Diana coming to Portland and Adalind not ending up with Diana. She already blames Nick for not being her knight the first time. What happens when she loses her child again. She will be all about wanting revenge. 

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    • Syscrash53 wrote:
      It is hard to judge Adalind. Until Kenneth threw Adalind out she had no intentions of raising her child with Nick. They even did a fake promo of Adalind imagining them together.  Even after being thrown out Adalind was still being Adalind.

      She minipulated Nick to get his protection. She started with appealing to Nick to protect his child. That didn't work she tries I can help Juliette.

      In the station when Nick was trying to calm the situation. Adalind throws gas on the fire by demanding Juliette leave.

      Adalind goes through a heart warming speech about how she has been wronged, But she still did not address her part in what happened. Adalind says her mother through her out. That not the whole story.  Adalind never had a good relation with her mother. She had left her mother a while ago. Her problem with her mother is Adalind will not listen.  

      Then we are at Adalind giving up her powers. There are two many things about that act that are suspect. It is an unheard of process. She gives up her powers in the hopes Juliette gives up hers. Even though Adalind mentioned Juliette is accepting what she is. But the part that really throws a wrench in Adalind giving up her powers. There where two spirits. Could one have been her child. Speaking of child who takes some unknown potion while pregnant if you truly only have the childs well being in mind.  

      It is more likly that Adalind needed the gangs help to make a potion that would allow her to combine with her mothers spirit. 

      So either the writers are doing a poor job at getting use to believe Adalind wants redemption or it is another one of  "Adalind saving her a** " moves. 

      Diana coming to Portland and Adalind not ending up with Diana. She already blames Nick for not being her knight the first time. What happens when she loses her child again. She will be all about wanting revenge. 

      SHEESH!

      You act as if Adalind will never change!

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    • 24.150.82.174 wrote:
      Syscrash53 wrote:
      It is hard to judge Adalind. Until Kenneth threw Adalind out she had no intentions of raising her child with Nick. They even did a fake promo of Adalind imagining them together.  Even after being thrown out Adalind was still being Adalind.

      She minipulated Nick to get his protection. She started with appealing to Nick to protect his child. That didn't work she tries I can help Juliette.

      In the station when Nick was trying to calm the situation. Adalind throws gas on the fire by demanding Juliette leave.

      Adalind goes through a heart warming speech about how she has been wronged, But she still did not address her part in what happened. Adalind says her mother through her out. That not the whole story.  Adalind never had a good relation with her mother. She had left her mother a while ago. Her problem with her mother is Adalind will not listen.  

      Then we are at Adalind giving up her powers. There are two many things about that act that are suspect. It is an unheard of process. She gives up her powers in the hopes Juliette gives up hers. Even though Adalind mentioned Juliette is accepting what she is. But the part that really throws a wrench in Adalind giving up her powers. There where two spirits. Could one have been her child. Speaking of child who takes some unknown potion while pregnant if you truly only have the childs well being in mind.  

      It is more likly that Adalind needed the gangs help to make a potion that would allow her to combine with her mothers spirit. 

      So either the writers are doing a poor job at getting use to believe Adalind wants redemption or it is another one of  "Adalind saving her a** " moves. 

      Diana coming to Portland and Adalind not ending up with Diana. She already blames Nick for not being her knight the first time. What happens when she loses her child again. She will be all about wanting revenge. 

      SHEESH!

      You act as if Adalind will never change!

      There's a saying that a leopard can't change it's spots.  Unless the writers are doing and "Elena and Damon" type story she's still bad and it's going to take a lot of writing for me to change my feelings towards her.  I'm still digesting this  whirlwind darkside of Juliette.  It seems as this was predicated on sweeps ratings. It's definitely getting harder to feel sympathy towards Juliette.  I'm ready for Nick to move on.  Can he ever trust Juliette again?  

      Thanks for mentioning how easily Adalind drank the potion.  Let's face it--Adalind wasn't moithered properly (according to her) and doesn't know HOW to be a mother much less a good one.  She's self-centered and is use to getting her way.

      I know this is supposed to be a no-brainer but Nick should insist on Adalind getting a blood test to prove the baby is really his.  Adalind was fooling around with at least two different men that we know of and could have been getting "touch ups" on the side.

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    • I am find with Adalind changing. It seems like they want us to see her changing. My problem Juliettes change is in your face. They have put a lot of thought into how they keep supporting the idea she is changing. 

      With Adalind give her a sefless act. So far everything she has done has been for her benifit. The changed Sean. When SEan changed to Nick side there was no confussion. We where not lookng for the double cross. We say Sean risk his life for Juliette. 

      I have said else where Adalind is the villian but she is also a victim. Those closes to her abused her trust to do their dirty work. Then when she fails they dump her.  

      With Adalind they have built her up. humanized her. Had her start to feel she was not alone. Only to pull the rug from under her. Sending her into a vengful rage.  The Diana thing just looks like another triger to send Adalind into a rage. Adalind is the villian you love to hate. I would like to see her use her mean and nasty ways against some foe. 

      I am still hoping for the ladies of Grimm. Juliette, Adalind and Rosalee working together against some powerful threat. 

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    • I have a theory, if you look at the epsoide she suppresses her powers the spirit looks like it's being dragged in her stomach believing me to think her powers were sealed in her child giving him even more than he was going to have before.

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    • Honestly NickxAdalind make a cuter couple than NickxJuliette. I'd be totally cool with it. Plus Adalind is super fine.

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    • Skaaaa wrote: Honestly NickxAdalind make a cuter couple than NickxJuliette. I'd be totally cool with it. Plus Adalind is super fine.

      I agree with you there!

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    • To those who say they are a super cute couple, remember she RAPED both Hank and Nick.

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    • I'd be VERY dissapointed if this (make believe) romance did NOT brin Nick and Adalind together. Like another commenter said, I also hoped for this ouctome from day one! They're SUCH a cute couple. And in the world of television where WOULD WE BE iwithout antiheros? The old "white hat" is long dead, so why not Adalind becoming a good witch? It's prefect, really, and if the writes do NOT bring these two together as friends and eventually lovers, they've missed a great chance for a turn-around that could drive the show for seasons to come.

      Great writing. I USUALLY hate being manipulated by creative scrit writing, but in this case I am really glad. Juilette was ALWAYS a dark character and never appreciated Nock. Juliette move over . . . let Adalind take over!


      (P.S. I don't think that that steamy bedroom scene between Nick and Adalind was accidental, it's a match made in . . . Portland!)

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    • Juliet is dead and adalind actually did not betray anyone and seems to be devolving a freindship with Nick.

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    • 154.20.43.37 wrote:
      To those who say they are a super cute couple, remember she RAPED both Hank and Nick.

      Please A Grimmster, learn the true definition of 'rape' before you go throwing it around...

      TVLINE | So Nick slept with Adalind… and didn’t even know it until after?! GIUNTOLI | It’s the only state-sanctioned way to cheat on your lover: Have someone else embody them. Yes, Adalind turned into Juliette and slept with me, and I did not know the difference — except there was a certain wild, witchy energy that I think Nick maybe liked.

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    • 154.20.43.37 wrote:
      To those who say they are a super cute couple, remember she RAPED both Hank and Nick.


      Both Hank and Nick were consenting adults.  True, she tricked them, but she certainly did not force them into bed.  Besides, it is a physical impossibility.

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    • The event for rape as follows: "Coercing a person of the female/ male sex to submit to sexual intercourse including by threatened violence to apply them under psychological pressure sets or making incapable of resistance is punishable up to ten years with hard labor." Other sexual assaults than the coitus are especially oral sex anal intercourse and sexual assaults on men treated as sexual assault.

      Besides, it is a physical impossibility. ( That's a fairy tale )

      True, she tricked them, but she certainly did not force them into bed.

      A kind of making incapable of resistance.

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    • I don't really want them to have a romantic relationship (really they've done to much damage to each other for that) but I'm okay with them forgiving each other, and having joint care of there child.

      Besides I don't think they would be able to have a relationship, she would constantly be afraid that he might kill her.

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    • 154.20.43.37 wrote:
      To those who say they are a super cute couple, remember she RAPED both Hank and Nick.


      In the eyes of the law, Nick committed murder when he killed Kenneth without even trying to arrest or charge him. And he and his gang killed a lot of Royal guards in the final episode. Did they have any evidence that those guards were bad people/Wesen? Maybe they were just hired to do a job and happened to be at the wrong place at the wrong time.

      So if you want to get technical about it, Adalind, being a rapist, would fit right in with a bunch of murderers.

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    • 96.47.226.98 wrote:

      154.20.43.37 wrote:
      To those who say they are a super cute couple, remember she RAPED both Hank and Nick.


      In the eyes of the law, Nick committed murder when he killed Kenneth without even trying to arrest or charge him. And he and his gang killed a lot of Royal guards in the final episode. Did they have any evidence that those guards were bad people/Wesen? Maybe they were just hired to do a job and happened to be at the wrong place at the wrong time.

      So if you want to get technical about it, Adalind, being a rapist, would fit right in with a bunch of murderers.

      Honestly, that's kind of irrelevant.

      How exactly does fit into this argument? We're discussing Nick and Adalind, not Nick and Kenneth.

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    • Guess I'm the only fan that wish Adalind would lose the child.  The relationships would get a lot more interesting.

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    • Bootsieginger wrote:
      Guess I'm the only fan that wish Adalind would lose the child.  The relationships would get a lot more interesting.

      Uh, yeah you are, because killing him would be a waste of material, and buildup! And the relationships wouldn't get interesting, they would be right back where they began. 

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    • Adalind doesn't deserve Nick.  I look at her as a self-serving woman who's only interest is herself or the fun she gets from causing others pain.  As mentioned before she really didn't care about the baby--look how quickly she drank  the potion--not a thought to the child.

      You're right--it woul be a waste of material and buildup but I sincerely hate seeing how quickly Nick's girlfriend has went darkside while it  we viewers are being manipulated into accepting Adalind as good.  Nick's mother, Monroe and Rosalie will have a hard time accepting Adalind (if they ever) and that's bound to make Adalind again demostrate her true colors.  

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    • Bootsieginger wrote: Adalind doesn't deserve Nick.  I look at her as a self-serving woman who's only interest is herself or the fun she gets from causing others pain.  As mentioned before she really didn't care about the baby--look how quickly she drank  the potion--not a thought to the child.

      You're right--it woul be a waste of material and buildup but I sincerely hate seeing how quickly Nick's girlfriend has went darkside while it  we viewers are being manipulated into accepting Adalind as good.  Nick's mother, Monroe and Rosalie will have a hard time accepting Adalind (if they ever) and that's bound to make Adalind again demostrate her true colors.  

      I don't know, I mean Adalind is a bitch, but really she's been whipped so many times its hard not to feel a little bit sorry for. Pretty much every person she ever trusted or worked with has used, abused or betrayed her.

      Now she's at rock bottom, and is actually forced to put her entire life in the hands of a person who not only has plenty of reasons to hate her and want her dead, but is also her natural predator.

      Really she's to pitiful to honestly hate. I'm hoping this will all serve as a wake up call and put her back on the right road.

      I don't want Nick and Adalind to end up together, but I think having somebody whose genuine and kind to her with no strings attached could do her a world of good.

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    • Bootsieginger wrote: Guess I'm the only fan that wish Adalind would lose the child.  The relationships would get a lot more interesting.

      Honestly I don't. Really Nick's lost to much already. If you take any more from him, I have a feeling it will change him, and leave him bitter.

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    • General MGD 109 wrote:

      Bootsieginger wrote: Guess I'm the only fan that wish Adalind would lose the child.  The relationships would get a lot more interesting.

      Honestly I don't. Really Nick's lost to much already. If you take any more from him, I have a feeling it will change him, and leave him bitter.

      It'll leave him as only a man who wouldn't care about anyone, even himself. It'll leave him as just a body with an angry spirit. 

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    • Scout Trooper 164 wrote:

      General MGD 109 wrote:

      Bootsieginger wrote: Guess I'm the only fan that wish Adalind would lose the child.  The relationships would get a lot more interesting.

      Honestly I don't. Really Nick's lost to much already. If you take any more from him, I have a feeling it will change him, and leave him bitter.

      It'll leave him as only a man who wouldn't care about anyone, even himself. It'll leave him as just a body with an angry spirit. 

      Agreed.

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    • Same here. Nick will need his child next season just as much as the boy will need his dad. And I am still certain the boy will draw Nick and Adalind closer together. Adalind might also get closer to everyone else in the process as well. Of course no one will forget Juliette, but still, they might start to trust Adalind more.

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    • Adalind losing the child would solve a lot of problems but still allwo the child to server it's purpose.  The writer said the end of season four the show woudl be darker. The writer fullied their promise. Now the writer said the show is going to get even darker. That Nick will be suffering depression and out for vengence.  

      If anything Nic kwill take his son and kill Adalind.  The writer have also hinted that more people Nick cares about are in danger. His son dieing might be the reason that has him going after Adalind again. 

      These ideas of the show doing the morally right thing. About the show making for happier times. I do not see it happening. After the Juliette event. You can bet anyone looking for a happy everafter is going to be really upset. We are going to see even more heart breaking events. If you think his mom and Trubel where uber Grimms. Nick is going to become really scary. 

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    • We now know Season 5 is about vengence.  Does Nick blame Trubel for killing her or does he balme Adalind for starting the entire problem when she took his powers.   The is the biggest problem I  see with Nick and Adalind. Every thing that has happend to Juliette was because of Adalind.  How do he get beyound that .  

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    • Syscrash53 wrote: These ideas of the show doing the morally right thing. About the show making for happier times. I do not see it happening. After the Juliette event. You can bet anyone looking for a happy everafter is going to be really upset. We are going to see even more heart breaking events. If you think his mom and Trubel where uber Grimms. Nick is going to become really scary. 

      I can hardly wait.

      But at least in there present state I kind of hope he doesn't go after Adalind. I mean she's presently powerless, helpless, dependant upon him and pregnant.

      Even after all she's done, it would be a bit harsh.

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    • Syscrash53 wrote: We now know Season 5 is about vengence.  Does Nick blame Trubel for killing her or does he balme Adalind for starting the entire problem when she took his powers.   The is the biggest problem I  see with Nick and Adalind. Every thing that has happend to Juliette was because of Adalind.  How do he get beyound that .  

      I doubt he'll blame Trubel or Adalind. More likely he'll blame himself, even though he's clearly in no way to blame.

      That will become depression, which will turn into anger, and then as you say into vengeance. The question is who is that vengeance going to be direct at? And how will it affect Nick? Will it make him cruel? Cold? More ruthless.

      I also can't help but wonder if he'll try and get Juliette back. Sure she's dead and she really betrayed him, but I few years ago I speculated if she did die, then perhaps Nick would make a deal with a demon for her to come back (lets face it, its by no means out of the realm of possibilities). Say he adds a clause that that Juliette that comes back is pure human and doesn't remember what happened.

      Perhaps the darkness could involve the price he has to pay. But just a theory.

      And I agree on you're sentiment on Adalind, that's why I don't want them to end up together. Still I'm okay if they eventually forgive each other and become allies.

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    • If Nick is looking for vengeance, my guess is it will be against the Royal family for the death of his mother. He understands Trubel did what she did to save him. While he will mourn the loss of Juliette I don't think he'll blame Trubel. As for Adalind, she's the mother of his son, and he hasn't made any attempt to harm or betray her, so I don't believe he will. I still think it's possible the might be drawn together, not just by their son now but they both have an axe to grind with the Royals - Nick because of his mom, and Adalind because they used her to try to get to Diana (plus they all still think the Royals have Diana).

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    • Yeah that makes sense, I can see him wanting revenge on the royals. I doubt he would blame Trubel. In fact he's probably going need her and the others more than ever now.

      Still now is the best time for vengeance on the royals, the king is dead and with Eric dead, Kenneth dead, Viktor in disgrace and Sean exiled, there probably isn't a clear successor to the throne.

      Its not going to happen, but honestly I would like it if he went to Europe and started tracking down the native Grimm's to stand with him against the royal families (they've been using them for centuries, I doubt he's the only Grimm who would like to see them dead).

      As for Adalind, I agree. And I hope he doesn't. She's simply to far fallen to honestly want her death, I mean she's literally been left to cling to the leg of the man who she knows has every reason to cut her head off.

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    • Adalind has done a number of things to make Nick and his team angry, but personally I can't discount the fact that maybe things will (albeit extremely slowly) start to change. I mean, if Nick and Adalind actually become a couple I feel that would more likely occur near the very end of the season, though certainly they could become friends before then.

      Sean I don't think ever had a claim to the throne because he was born out of wedlock, though it has been theorized maybe before the king died he somehow had Sean legitimized due to Eric's death, but I doubt Sean would accept it. But you're right, with the king dead the Royals are going to be in a vulnerable state as they try to restablish internal authority.

      I'm hoping the plot involving the keys resurfaces. The royals we know have four, and Nick holds two - one from Aunt Marie, the other from Josh Porter's dad. So there's one left to find.

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    • 70.88.128.113 wrote: Adalind has done a number of things to make Nick and his team angry, but personally I can't discount the fact that maybe things will (albeit extremely slowly) start to change. I mean, if Nick and Adalind actually become a couple I feel that would more likely occur near the very end of the season, though certainly they could become friends before then.

      Sean I don't think ever had a claim to the throne because he was born out of wedlock, though it has been theorized maybe before the king died he somehow had Sean legitimized due to Eric's death, but I doubt Sean would accept it. But you're right, with the king dead the Royals are going to be in a vulnerable state as they try to restablish internal authority.

      I'm hoping the plot involving the keys resurfaces. The royals we know have four, and Nick holds two - one from Aunt Marie, the other from Josh Porter's dad. So there's one left to find.

      Agreed, if anything does happen between Nick and Adalind it will be at the end of the season. They need time to mend bridges before they can even consider being friends, let alone more.

      As for Sean, yes he is illegitimate, but there have been some pretty great kings who were illegitimate in history, and he is still the kings son. So I can see him potentially championing his claim.

      I imagine part of the season will be a bit of succession battle over who the new king of the Kronenberg's will be.

      And I agree, I hope the keys come back into focus. No doubt the group will begin hunting for the final one. Then its the conflict over what is buried in Germany?

      I also hope Josh comes back.

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    • Now threw Adalinds manipulation she is no long in any danger.  Right now she has one problem and one problem only Nicks kid.

      NIck having vengence against the Royals. There are no Royals left for him to take his vengence out on. Remember Sean exile is self imposed. So Sean gaining power would be well within how the show has be going.  Nick has not reason to take vengence against Sean.  Nick won't blame Trubel. But there will be a problem with the Trubel , Chavez, Nick combination. I see Trubel caught between Nick and Chavez. 

      When the show says Nick will seek vengence. I have a feeling it will be against all wesen. It will be the world he was thrown into that he will blame. As Juliette put it there is more then enough blame to go around. 

      Nick reserecting Juliette by making some deal. That also is within what the show has done. The only problem is the old Juliette no longer fits within the show. Even if you wipe her memory. No one wants to see another three season of discovry for Juliette.  The empowered Juliette also would not fit within the show. Pluse Juliette being dead helps fuel Nicks anger. LIke other have said he didn't know his mother. So to go all uber Grimm behid her death would not be belieable. but with Juliette nad Kelly's death, not if make sense for Nick to go off. 

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    • Nick and Adalind should end up together for a change, it'll be interesting and fresh. No matter who says otherwise. If they do take this route, they need to do it right. Making Adalind good and make Nick get over Juliette in a plausible way. 

      No meaningless one night stands please. 

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    • Syscrash53 wrote: Now threw Adalinds manipulation she is no long in any danger.  Right now she has one problem and one problem only Nicks kid.

      NIck having vengence against the Royals. There are no Royals left for him to take his vengence out on. Remember Sean exile is self imposed. So Sean gaining power would be well within how the show has be going.  Nick has not reason to take vengence against Sean.  Nick won't blame Trubel. But there will be a problem with the Trubel , Chavez, Nick combination. I see Trubel caught between Nick and Chavez. 

      When the show says Nick will seek vengence. I have a feeling it will be against all wesen. It will be the world he was thrown into that he will blame. As Juliette put it there is more then enough blame to go around. 

      Nick reserecting Juliette by making some deal. That also is within what the show has done. The only problem is the old Juliette no longer fits within the show. Even if you wipe her memory. No one wants to see another three season of discovry for Juliette.  The empowered Juliette also would not fit within the show. Pluse Juliette being dead helps fuel Nicks anger. LIke other have said he didn't know his mother. So to go all uber Grimm behid her death would not be belieable. but with Juliette nad Kelly's death, not if make sense for Nick to go off. 

      I wouldn't say Adalind is no longer in danger. Less sure, but she's still heavily pregnant, has absolutely nothing and is powerless.

      And I think there are royals, don't forget there are seven families of royals, Nick and the group has just had the most interactions with the House of Kronenberg (presumably the stand in for the Hapsburgs).

      I don't see Nick taking his vengeance on the Wesen to be honest. Its not in his nature. He might be more hostile towards them, but I can't see him going after them. Perhaps only hexenbiests (boy that would terrify Adalind).

      Yeah, maybe your right. Still she doesn't have to be completely regressed, just restored to where she was at the beginning of season four. Likewise it doesn't have to happen first thing, there is plenty of time for rage and pain before the idea is even suggested to be possible to Nick.

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    • I would have never thought Nick would slit someone's throat. The nI would have never thought Wu would deliver someone to be executed. In the begining Wu waws so concerned about crossing the line. No he takes and arrested prisoner to be executed. So Nick have hate against wesen is not a streach. He will surly have a hatered toward hexenbiest. Why Dalind will hide that she has her powers back. 

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    • Syscrash53 wrote: I would have never thought Nick would slit someone's throat. The nI would have never thought Wu would deliver someone to be executed. In the begining Wu waws so concerned about crossing the line. No he takes and arrested prisoner to be executed. So Nick have hate against wesen is not a streach. He will surly have a hatered toward hexenbiest. Why Dalind will hide that she has her powers back. 

      Really? I fully believe he would have, I mean in his first episode he does kill an Ogre when it attacks him and his aunt.

      Still if he does begin to hate Hexenbiest, that might drive Adalind to betray him, simply cause he would be afraid for her life. Or alternatively, she might be left with no one to betray him to, and simply have to put up with having her natural predator talk about how much he would like to kill her whole kind.

      Does Adalind have her powers back? I was under the impression they were gone for good.

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    • Adalind's powers were suppressed, not destroyed. She might unsuppress them next season.

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    • I don't know, the way it went down looked almost identical to how Nick stripped her of them.

      I get the impression suppressing them might be a one way process.

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    • It wasn't Nick who suppressed Adalind's powers last season - she drank the potion herself in order to see if it worked so they could give it to Juliette.

      Suppressing them might be a one way process, but on the other hand I got a feeling Adalind is going to need her powers back if she's going to help Nick next season (there might be groups interested in killing her son for instance, so she'll need her powers to defend him) as well as look for Diana and fight those trying to stop her.

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    • 173.13.242.113 wrote: It wasn't Nick who suppressed Adalind's powers last season - she drank the potion herself in order to see if it worked so they could give it to Juliette.

      Suppressing them might be a one way process, but on the other hand I got a feeling Adalind is going to need her powers back if she's going to help Nick next season (there might be groups interested in killing her son for instance, so she'll need her powers to defend him) as well as look for Diana and fight those trying to stop her.

      Oh I know, I'm just saying the effects that occurred were very similar to when Nick stripped her off them in season 1.

      Its entirely possible, but then its also possible that while she would benefit with them, she might have to do without them.

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    • In season one  the spirit left Adalind body.  This time two sprits left and then returned. So the spirits are still in her.  That she has two sprits it could mean one is that of the child. Which means the portion did effect her unborn child. The other option would be one spirit is hers the other is her mother. Meaning her reason for the potion was to increase her powers. Again she was willing to risk her unborn child for her own benefits. 

      Adalind went to great length to get her powers back the first time. There is no way she would give them up as easy as she did. There has to be a reason why she would want to take the potion.

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    • Syscrash53 wrote: In season one  the spirit left Adalind body.  This time two sprits left and then returned. So the spirits are still in her.  That she has two sprits it could mean one is that of the child. Which means the portion did effect her unborn child. The other option would be one spirit is hers the other is her mother. Meaning her reason for the potion was to increase her powers. Again she was willing to risk her unborn child for her own benefits. 

      Adalind went to great length to get her powers back the first time. There is no way she would give them up as easy as she did. There has to be a reason why she would want to take the potion.

      Well its certain the potion wouldn't strengthen a Hexenbiest otherwise she wouldn't dream of letting them try it on Juliette. Likewise I don't think there is any reason to doubt it does exactly what she said it does, for the same reason as above.

      I think she was willing to, cause she's grown a little bit since then. And this time she is really at rock bottom.

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    • For one thing she knew Juliette would not take the potion. Adalind even stated if Juliette  knew she was involved she would not take it. Which is exactly what Juliette did. 

      She is at rock bottom! Rock bottom is being locked in a psycho dungeon. Rock bottom is having your mother and boy friend through you out.  This is not rock bottom. In fact she had the protection of the King so Kenneth would not be a problem. Kenneth told Adalind no one is going to kill you. So Adalind had options, just not ones she wanted. Adalind problem is she wanted Juliette eliminated. Adalind has never lost a fight without seeking revenge and revenge against Juliette is what she wanted and what she got.  

      At this point Nick is at Rock bottom and Adalind and Sean are on top of the hill.  The combination of Sean, Diana, and Adalind would give Adalind exactly what she wants power and control. 

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    • Adalind's not got any powers now. There's nothing to repel Nick physically about her turning into a hexenbiest. Adalind needs Nick to help her get Diana back. They are going to have a child together. Nick doesn't know Adalind wanted Juliette eliminated. All he heard from Juliette were threats against Adalind. Kenneth who might have told him, died at Nick's hand.

      Nick appreciated what Adalind tried to do for Juliette with the potion to suppress her powers. Nick's not about to forget the history he's had with Adalind. It's been pretty negative. Adalind's got the best chance she's ever going to have to win Nick.

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    • Meisner has Diana,  Meisner works for Sean. How would Nick be able to help get Diana. In directly Sean has Diana. 

      Anyone one who thinks Adalind actually gave up her powers has not been watching the show.  We saw the two sprits leave and then return meaning she still has two spirits in her. When Nick took her powers the spirt only left. Beside Adalind went to hell and back to regain her powers.With what Adalind went through to only give them up to help Juliette?? Really?? What past action makes you think Adalind would be that selfless. Even Juliette was not that selfless.  

      To win NIck! The best she can hope for is Nick not take his revenge out on her. Even Adalind was not sure Nick would not kill her after the Royals where gone. What protection will she have after she gives birth. For Nick to be with his son he does not need Adalind. After giving birth what does Adalind add to the situation, besides problems. Remeber everything that has happend to Jliette and Nicks friends have been at the hands of Adalind. Other may have been calling the shots. But it was adalind that did the deed.   

      If Sean who actually had a relationship with Adalind is willing to throw her under the bus. What chance does she have with NIck after his son is born. 

      If you actually think about it. For Nick and Sean Adalind dead and they raising they kids would work out best for both of them. Then they would not have to worry about what Adalind is planing.  It is not knowing what Adalind will do, knowing she is always up to something is why Sean will have nothing to do with her. 

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    • Syscrash53 wrote:

      For one thing she knew Juliette would not take the potion. Adalind even stated if Juliette  knew she was involved she would not take it. Which is exactly what Juliette did. 

      I think you might be giving her to much credit. For one things he didn't even know if they would give it to her that way. What was stopping Nick loading it into his crossbow and simply shooting her with it? Or them spiking her drink? Or anything.

      Syscrash53 wrote: She is at rock bottom! Rock bottom is being locked in a psycho dungeon. Rock bottom is having your mother and boy friend through you out.  This is not rock bottom. In fact she had the protection of the King so Kenneth would not be a problem. Kenneth told Adalind no one is going to kill you. So Adalind had options, just not ones she wanted. Adalind problem is she wanted Juliette eliminated. Adalind has never lost a fight without seeking revenge and revenge against Juliette is what she wanted and what she got.

      I disagree, that was also Rock Bottom, but so is this. Sure Kenneth said that, but he clearly he no interest in stopping Juliette kill Adalind. If her protection can change that suddenly, then its clear she has none. And what would it have amounted to?

      How is not Rock Bottom, to be left putting your life in the hands of the ones who want you dead.

      Syscrash53 wrote: At this point Nick is at Rock bottom and Adalind and Sean are on top of the hill.  The combination of Sean, Diana, and Adalind would give Adalind exactly what she wants power and control. 

      Indeed Nick is at Rock Bottom, but Adalind might have slipped out a bit, but really I think your exaggerating. What exactly does she have power or control over?

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    • Syscrash53 wrote:

      Meisner has Diana,  Meisner works for Sean. How would Nick be able to help get Diana. In directly Sean has Diana. 

      Not exactly Meisner, doesn't work for Sean. He's an independent leader in his own right, he's worked with Sean. But he doesn't actually work for him.

      Now Sean probably will be able to get his daughter back through him. But whose going to stop the Royals simply coming back and taking her again? Personally I would rather have a natural born warrior at my side if that came to happen...or even two.

      Syscrash53 wrote: Anyone one who thinks Adalind actually gave up her powers has not been watching the show.  We saw the two sprits leave and then return meaning she still has two spirits in her. When Nick took her powers the spirt only left. Beside Adalind went to hell and back to regain her powers.With what Adalind went through to only give them up to help Juliette?? Really?? What past action makes you think Adalind would be that selfless. Even Juliette was not that selfless.  

      Well the simple problem is, if it wasn't going to work, why give it to Juliette? That would only put off the problem for a while. Likewise this is Adalind, miss make choices on the second and not think them through, Adalind we're talking about.

      Syscrash53 wrote: To win NIck! The best she can hope for is Nick not take his revenge out on her. Even Adalind was not sure Nick would not kill her after the Royals where gone. What protection will she have after she gives birth. For Nick to be with his son he does not need Adalind. After giving birth what does Adalind add to the situation, besides problems. Remeber everything that has happend to Jliette and Nicks friends have been at the hands of Adalind. Other may have been calling the shots. But it was adalind that did the deed.   

      Indeed it is true, and no doubt Nick hasn't forgotten. But Adalind is going to be his son's mother, considering his past I don't think he would want his son to grow up without his mother. Likewise Nick isn't a cruel man, he won't turn on Adalind unless she gives him reason to. For the moment he's willing to accept and give her a chance to redeem herself. If she steps out of line, off with her head.

      Adalind knows this as well.

      Syscrash53 wrote: If Sean who actually had a relationship with Adalind is willing to throw her under the bus. What chance does she have with NIck after his son is born. 

      Perhaps not a good one. Personally I think she should go back to Sean though, he's gotten better since then.

      Syscrash53 wrote: If you actually think about it. For Nick and Sean Adalind dead and they raising they kids would work out best for both of them. Then they would not have to worry about what Adalind is planing.  It is not knowing what Adalind will do, knowing she is always up to something is why Sean will have nothing to do with her. 

      True, but then both there Children would grow up motherless. Considering how much both men love there mother's, I can't see them wanting to inflict that upon there own children, unless there is a need.

      At the present there isn't a need. If one occurs, then Nick will Kill Adalind and take his son. Then I guess he'll have to adapt to being a single father.

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    • I think Nick and Adalind should get Married, cause in my mind i see them getting married.

      And i wonder what their sons name is going to be?don,t you want to know?

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    • Who is Jack the Ripper cause i,m only on episode 20?

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    • Um to be honest that is kind of cheesy writing that Nick and Adalind will fall in love. That is also a romantics fantasy. Not saying Adalind will never change but, she did a lot to Nick. And most of his pain came from her.

      -His aunts' death

      -Hank's rape

      -Wu's eating disorder (unintentionally but still responsible)

      -Juliette's coma

      -Juliette's memory loss (which had a big toll on Nick)

      -Him losing his powers (Which almost killed Monroe and Hank. As well as another female officer) (Also risked Trubels life majorly)

      -Juliette becoming a Hexenbiest

      -Nick's almost death due to Juliettes powers


      Since her powers were suppressed she was able to show empathy for the death of his mother. Which may improve her overall personality. But Juliette really loved him and still wouldn't give up her powers for him. Why would Adalind of all people give up her powers for the man whom she so openly hated and took advantage of?

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    • Blutbau Fuchsbad wrote: Um to be honest that is kind of cheesy writing that Nick and Adalind will fall in love. That is also a romantics fantasy. Not saying Adalind will never change but, she did a lot to Nick. And most of his pain came from her.

      -His aunts' death

      -Hank's rape

      -Wu's eating disorder (unintentionally but still responsible)

      -Juliette's coma

      -Juliette's memory loss (which had a big toll on Nick)

      -Him losing his powers (Which almost killed Monroe and Hank. As well as another female officer) (Also risked Trubels life majorly)

      -Juliette becoming a Hexenbiest

      -Nick's almost death due to Juliettes powers

      Yeah, that's why I don't see them, ending up together. They've done a lot of things to one another over the years. Things that can be forgiven, but not forgotten.


      Blutbau Fuchsbad wrote: Since her powers were suppressed she was able to show empathy for the death of his mother. Which may improve her overall personality. But Juliette really loved him and still wouldn't give up her powers for him. Why would Adalind of all people give up her powers for the man whom she so openly hated and took advantage of?

      Why Adalind gave up her powers, well I think it comes down to three points:

      One, she makes really impulsive choices (its probably her biggest character flaw).

      Two, legitemently it was choice between her powers or her own life. And I can see her preferring getting to live but be powerless, over dying before she gets to thirty five.

      Three, simply put she's very well aware that no one in the group really likes her, and her life was only so much safer with them than it was with the royals. As such the best thing she can do, is give a display that she's willing to change. What better display is there than making a personal sacrifice?

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    • General MGD 109 wrote:

      Blutbau Fuchsbad wrote: Um to be honest that is kind of cheesy writing that Nick and Adalind will fall in love. That is also a romantics fantasy. Not saying Adalind will never change but, she did a lot to Nick. And most of his pain came from her.

      -His aunts' death

      -Hank's rape

      -Wu's eating disorder (unintentionally but still responsible)

      -Juliette's coma

      -Juliette's memory loss (which had a big toll on Nick)

      -Him losing his powers (Which almost killed Monroe and Hank. As well as another female officer) (Also risked Trubels life majorly)

      -Juliette becoming a Hexenbiest

      -Nick's almost death due to Juliettes powers

      Yeah, that's why I don't see them, ending up together. They've done a lot of things to one another over the years. Things that can be forgiven, but not forgotten.


      Blutbau Fuchsbad wrote: Since her powers were suppressed she was able to show empathy for the death of his mother. Which may improve her overall personality. But Juliette really loved him and still wouldn't give up her powers for him. Why would Adalind of all people give up her powers for the man whom she so openly hated and took advantage of?

      Why Adalind gave up her powers, well I think it comes down to three points:

      One, she makes really impulsive choices (its probably her biggest character flaw).

      Two, legitemently it was choice between her powers or her own life. And I can see her preferring getting to live but be powerless, over dying before she gets to thirty five.

      Three, simply put she's very well aware that no one in the group really likes her, and her life was only so much safer with them than it was with the royals. As such the best thing she can do, is give a display that she's willing to change. What better display is there than making a personal sacrifice?

      I agree man. As you pointed out, that comes down to saving her own ass. Juliette loved Nick but would not give up her powers for him. Also, Juliette had no life threat if she did not give them up. Yes Adalind gave up her powers to save her own ass, but she would never do that for Nick. Whether out of love, friendship, or even a slight respect. The only way she would give up her powers is for her own safety. That would never work out, her and Nick.

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    • I am wondering how the Adalind and David relationship will work without the constant comparison to Juliette. Also will they even address Adalind's pass deeds or will they just ingnore it . and have us assume that was  in the past.  Will the show want us to believe that was the old adalind. 

      How will Sean and Nick relation work. Sean has not desire to wrok with Adalind. What hapeens when Nick starts to include her. 

      Season 5 is going to be interesting. The first few episdoes will truly determine if the show continues with it fan base or will the Nick and Adalind story kill the show. The one way would be for the show to eliminate any reference to Juliette. Have Nick dwell on Juliette being an evil  hexenbiest and ignore how she got that way. Deal with ADalind willing to give up her powers and Juliette not willing to give up her powers.  


      I wonder if the show will have Adalind being sympathtic about what happen to Juliette, and actual help Nick find out what happend when Chavez entered the house.  Instead of Adalind trying to be a replacement for Juliette. 

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    • Syscrash53 wrote:

      I am wondering how the Adalind and David relationship will work without the constant comparison to Juliette. Also will they even address Adalind's pass deeds or will they just ingnore it . and have us assume that was  in the past.  Will the show want us to believe that was the old adalind. 

      I really doubt there forget about her past deeds, this show is very good at having the sins of the past always return to haunt you. I mean she faced a lot of her choices during the third season, now she's going to have to face the rest of them this season.

      At the same time, I don't think it will be brought up to much. I mean Nick's a practical man, he'll except the situation for what is. No doubt there be plenty of unspoken hostility and (on her part) fear for a while though.

      Syscrash53 wrote:

      How will Sean and Nick relation work. Sean has not desire to wrok with Adalind. What hapeens when Nick starts to include her. 

      Don't know, I don't think Sean truly has anything against Adalind. They had a large falling out last time sure (though considering the circumstances, they both had a point to there actions).

      Syscrash53 wrote:

      Season 5 is going to be interesting. The first few episdoes will truly determine if the show continues with it fan base or will the Nick and Adalind story kill the show. The one way would be for the show to eliminate any reference to Juliette. Have Nick dwell on Juliette being an evil  hexenbiest and ignore how she got that way. Deal with ADalind willing to give up her powers and Juliette not willing to give up her powers.

      I don't see them forgetting anything, most likely there work through it. I mean it won't be an instant thing, if anything does happen, it will be a long process. After all they have to actually build some ground to even trust each other first.

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    • I think that Nick and Adalind are going to get together and have a happy family with their child.

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    • Grimmslayer wrote: I think that Nick and Adalind are going to get together and have a happy family with their child.

      While that's not impossible. They both have a long long way to go before that is plausible. And probably quite a bit of therapy fist.

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    • I suppose but it also depends if anyone or thing gets in their way like Chavez or the royals and I wonder what the baby is going to be like?

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    • Grimmslayer wrote: I suppose but it also depends if anyone or thing gets in their way like Chavez or the royals and I wonder what the baby is going to be like?

      Things will always get in the way. Nick's life will never be an easy one (it just comes with having a foot in both the worlds of men and of wesen), and as such neither will those be around him.

      The question can get through that? But they have a long way to go before they can even consider that stage.

      That's a good question about the baby. For some reason I have a feeling he'll take after his father.

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    • TNT has been airing the episodes in order and right now they're on season 3.  Watching these episodes reminds me how narcisstic, selfish and cruel Adalind is and the thought of the writers hooking her up with Nick makes me ill.  After all she's done the only GOOD thing she can do is DIE after giving birth to Nick's son--assuming it is his.  Know this sounds cruel but this woman has been nothing but trouble from day one and  doesn't deserve any accolades.  

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    • Bootsieginger wrote:
      TNT has been airing the episodes in order and right now they're on season 3.  Watching these episodes reminds me how narcisstic, selfish and cruel Adalind is and the thought of the writers hooking her up with Nick makes me ill.  After all she's done the only GOOD thing she can do is DIE after giving birth to Nick's son--assuming it is his.  Know this sounds cruel but this woman has been nothing but trouble from day one and  doesn't deserve any accolades.  

      We all know it's Nick's son, if it was Renard, she would've gotten pregnant prior to her taking Nick's powers, and it's pretty obvious it is.

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    • Bootsieginger wrote: TNT has been airing the episodes in order and right now they're on season 3.  Watching these episodes reminds me how narcisstic, selfish and cruel Adalind is and the thought of the writers hooking her up with Nick makes me ill.  After all she's done the only GOOD thing she can do is DIE after giving birth to Nick's son--assuming it is his.  Know this sounds cruel but this woman has been nothing but trouble from day one and  doesn't deserve any accolades.  

      Well Adalind's a complicated issue. Its true she is narcissistic, spiteful, selfish and cruel. Legitemently most fans agreed she crossed the moral even horizon back when she raped Nick and took his powers. But the thing is, her life is just so bad, its hard to hate her (everything she does, always comes back to haunt her, and then it just crushes her).

      I agree with you I don't want them to end up together, but really I also don't want to watch her try and be evil, and end up getting flayed again.

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    • I don't find it difficult to dislike her--she's brought her problems on HERSELF.

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    • Bootsieginger wrote: I don't find it difficult to dislike her--she's brought her problems on HERSELF.

      Yes she does, but the problem is she also pays for them (and a bit more). Every thing she's done, has just ended up making her own life a bit worse.

      And when you look at her life, its not a happy one. Everyone she ever trusted or relied on has used, abused or betrayed her, even her own mother.

      Now I'm not saying she deserves a blank slate, she's got some more suffering ahead first (having to rely on her natural predator and the guy who hates is certainly a start). But if she can break the chain and get out, I'm all for it.

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    • ZooBlazer
      ZooBlazer removed this reply because:
      03:53, February 29, 2016
      This reply has been removed
    • All I want to know was Juliette written so she would turned evil and killed off just so the writers would have a better excuse for having Adalind end up with Nick because I am beyond pissed as I never was very fond of Adalind and it reminds me of another character in another show was killed off just so their love interest can end up with another character which I also wasn't very fond of and I believe that person didn't deserve it (not giving names, figure it out yourselves if you seriously want to know). Losing her daughter, Diane, would be something I would pitty her on as she looked genuinually broken when her daughter was taken away from her but I believe she doesn't deserve Nick as a love interest. Eventual true friend/ally but not as a love interest. But hey it is my opinion!

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    • ZooBlazer
      ZooBlazer removed this reply because:
      03:53, February 29, 2016
      This reply has been removed
    • Summonmoon wrote: All I want to know was Juliette written so she would turned evil and killed off just so the writers would have a better excuse for having Adalind end up with Nick

      Its a possibility, but we don't know for sure. Really its possible they just killed Juliette off cause the character wasn't very popular, or cause they wanted to change the status quo. Or perhaps Bitsie wanted to move on to other projects.

      Has there been an official release why yet?

      Summonmoon wrote: but I believe she doesn't deserve Nick as a love interest. Eventual true friend/ally but not as a love interest. But hey it is my opinion!

      I agree. Still I don't know if love is on the table, they have a lot to get past first.

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    • You brought out some interesting points yet I still can't accept Adalind as good and don't want to see her romantically involved with Nick.  You call her human in the way she retaliated from things being done with her.  I've seen her as trouble from day one.  What self respecting woman is going to sleep with two brothers?  Was she in love with both of them or did she have other ideas?  Both times with the brothers she didn't practice safe sex  and being a smart lady lawyer one can't help but think she had ulterior motives. You add Hank and Nick to this woman's list of conquests and she comes off as little more than a high class whore.   May have missed it but Adalind hasn't displayed  a decent bone in her body and to make up for the trouble she's caused she would have to sell her soul to GOD.  Don't know if that's possible for a hexenbiest or anybody but it would be a start.  

      The commenters who say they see a romantic relationship developing between Nick and Adalind are probably correct in where the writers are headed.  After Juliette torched Nick's trailer I couldn't find it in my heart to forgive her.  Maybe it has something to do with the fact that the actress (Bitsie Tulloch) who plays her EYES always rattled me.  Maybe they're too big for her face and always seem a bit scary.  However, I loved her character for the way she stood by Nick after being told what was going on.  It was bizarre how her character did a 180 and went rogue.  Guess turning into a hexenbiest will do that to you.  

      Hoping the writers will come up with another character, a lady who is good and introduce her to Nick. I'm certain if that were to happen the lady wouldn't last long.  Who do you think would try to interfere?  Adalind.  Whether she and Nick are enjoying a romantic relationship or not she wouldn't want anything or the POSSIBILITY of anything interfering with what she thinks should be.

      Looking forward to the next season.   

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    • Bootsieginger wrote: What self respecting woman is going to sleep with two brothers?  Was she in love with both of them or did she have other ideas?  Both times with the brothers she didn't practice safe sex  and being a smart lady lawyer one can't help but think she had ulterior motives. You add Hank and Nick to this woman's list of conquests and she comes off as little more than a high class whore.

      I wouldn't call her a whore, more a cross between a sexual predator and wannabe femme Fatal/Vamp. However it seems Hexenbiest's traditionally do more or less sleep with people they think will benefit them.

      Thankfully she's managing to outgrow the side of her nature (slowly).

      Bootsieginger wrote: May have missed it but Adalind hasn't displayed  a decent bone in her body and to make up for the trouble she's caused she would have to sell her soul to GOD.  Don't know if that's possible for a hexenbiest or anybody but it would be a start.  

      I think a few of her interactions with or regarding her children suggest she has at least on or two. But yeah she does have a lot to make up for. She has paid for a lot of her crimes, just not all of them.

      Bootsieginger wrote: After Juliette torched Nick's trailer I couldn't find it in my heart to forgive her.

      However, I loved her character for the way she stood by Nick after being told what was going on.  It was bizarre how her character did a 180 and went rogue.  Guess turning into a hexenbiest will do that to you.  

      Agreed.

      Makes sense if you think about it. Its stated several times Wesen instincts are incredibly powerful and must be ignored at all costs. Even Monroe whose probably the most in control Wesen in the series, still avoids other Blutbadden for fear of a relapse.

      If natural instincts make Hexenbiest's act selfish, entitled, arrogant and cold. Super charged ones on someone who had no idea what they were, would probably be pure sociopath.

      Bootsieginger wrote: Hoping the writers will come up with another character, a lady who is good and introduce her to Nick. I'm certain if that were to happen the lady wouldn't last long. Who do you think would try to interfere?  Adalind.  Whether she and Nick are enjoying a romantic relationship or not she wouldn't want anything or the POSSIBILITY of anything interfering with what she thinks should be.

      All for him finding a new love, but first he's got to mourn his old one.

      Still if Nick did, I don't know if she would interfere. I imagine she will really not want to do anything that could set him off. Not until they get to a lot better place.

      Bootsieginger wrote: Looking forward to the next season.   

      Me to.

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    • anyone getting close to Nick would still be subjected to the same dangers as Juliette. He could not find someone outside to wesen world. we have seen trying to keep the secrate from someone close will not work. So Nick is restricted to another Grimm or a wesen. With these limitations Adalind is really his only option. especially with his sons mother being a hexenbiest. What other wesen will want to deal with a hexenbiest.

      But I really think the new Nick romance will be the farthest from his mind. 

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    • Syscrash53 wrote: anyone getting close to Nick would still be subjected to the same dangers as Juliette. He could not find someone outside to wesen world. we have seen trying to keep the secrate from someone close will not work. So Nick is restricted to another Grimm or a wesen.

      That's true.

      Syscrash53 wrote: With these limitations Adalind is really his only option. especially with his sons mother being a hexenbiest. What other wesen will want to deal with a hexenbiest.

      Well there are a few, but not many.

      But while Adalind is still technically a Hexenbiest until they come up with an antidote to the potion (or it wears off, its not clear if it would or not) she's more or less mortal at the moment.

      Syscrash53 wrote: But I really think the new Nick romance will be the farthest from his mind.

      Agreed, Revenge, fatherhood, pain and mourning sure. But not romance, not for sometime.

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    • That's what normal people would do--fatherhood, pain and mourning.  Nick isn't your normal kind of fellow and neither is Adalind a normal woman.  Who can say she won't get ahold of some of her connections in the Black Arts to put some kind of spell on Nick to ensure his bond with her.  It wouldn't be the first time she used another's help to cast a spell.   Don't see this lady riding in the sunset all smiles without trying to make SOMEONE pay.  

      The thought of Adalind being Nick only chance for romance is SAD.

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    • Bootsieginger wrote: That's what normal people would do--fatherhood, pain and mourning.  Nick isn't your normal kind of fellow and neither is Adalind a normal woman.

      That is true. But I think he'll still try that, just emphasis on the revenge.

      Bootsieginger wrote: Who can say she won't get ahold of some of her connections in the Black Arts to put some kind of spell on Nick to ensure his bond with her.  It wouldn't be the first time she used another's help to cast a spell.

      We can't, but the thing is while Adalind is impulsive I wouldn't say she was stupid. Such a spell would have to be very powerful to control Nick (as we've seen being a Grimm makes you immune to some things, being partially immune to other things, and to sometimes it makes it ten times worse. Generally spells and Wesen tricks aren't a good idea when it comes to them).

      Likewise, if it failed. He would kill her (lets face it, if she wasn't carrying his child he would probably have killed her by this point).

      So Adalind's alone, she's desperate and she's got very little going for her. Why would she risk everything?

      Bootsieginger wrote: Don't see this lady riding in the sunset all smiles without trying to make SOMEONE pay.  

      I don't know. I think she might just be facing up to the truth, that all her plans just end up hurting her.

      Bootsieginger wrote: The thought of Adalind being Nick only chance for romance is SAD.

      It kind of is.

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    • Bootsieginger wrote: The thought of Adalind being Nick only chance for romance is SAD.

      Haha, it is. But Adalind is not his only chance for romance... Not trying to sound desperate here but we still have Trubel xD. Keeping an open mind to every possibility... but yes the thought of him ending up with Adalind is horrid.

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    • Blutbau Fuchsbad wrote: Haha, it is. But Adalind is not his only chance for romance... Not trying to sound desperate here but we still have Trubel xD. Keeping an open mind to every possibility... but yes the thought of him ending up with Adalind is horrid.

      Yeah I'll be honest, while I will accept its possible it could change.

      Really I can see him with Adalind before Trubel. They do at least have chemistry (they shouldn't get together, but they have it).

      He and Trubel also have chemistry, but its sibling chemistry, not lovers chemistry.

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    • General MGD 109 wrote:

      Yeah I'll be honest, while I will accept its possible it could change.

      Really I can see him with Adalind before Trubel. They do at least have chemistry (they shouldn't get together, but they have it).

      He and Trubel also have chemistry, but its sibling chemistry, not lovers chemistry.

      Agreed, I wouldn't be surprised if Trubel and Nick became a thing. Trubel obviously does not trust easily... and Nick was the first to gain her trust. Though, I would not be surprised if Trubel fell first (being younger and all)... this season is definitely going to be interesting. Don't want to turn the show into a romantic drama xD, but I wonder if he's gonna have a hard time choosing too. The writers are unpredictable sometimes.

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    • Blutbau Fuchsbad wrote: Agreed, I wouldn't be surprised if Trubel and Nick became a thing. Trubel obviously does not trust easily... and Nick was the first to gain her trust. Though, I would not be surprised if Trubel fell first (being younger and all)... this season is definitely going to be interesting. Don't want to turn the show into a romantic drama xD, but I wonder if he's gonna have a hard time choosing too. The writers are unpredictable sometimes.

      Well I don't make definitive statements, cause sometimes the writers can pull the rug out from under you're feet.

      But I'll say this, first before they can explore that avenue, there going to have to bump her up to a more equal level with Nick.

      And yeah they really can be.

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    • Yes, in order for me to accept Trubel as a romantic mate she will have to be bumped up.  Nick had a successful, pretty woman as his mate before and probably because of the life she's led, Trubel doesn't come anywhere near that.  For that Trubel will need lessons!!!    Henry Higgins, where are you?!  Just joshing.

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    • Well its not just that. Its up to date Trubel's more or less excepted Nick as a mentor/older brother figure. It was him who showed her she wasn't insane, who taught her what it means to be a Grimm, showed her that not all Wesen are dangerous, and helped her to come to terms with what she was and the role she had.

      While she had been a Grimm longer than him, Nick's the one whose had the most experiences dealing with Wesen and the bigger picture figures. He's likewise the one who had the advantage of all knowledge in the trailer.

      She's gotten better sure, she's a much stronger and more stable person than she was when she met Nick. But for them to consider romance, there going to need to go the rest of the way and make them equals.

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    • General MGD 109  wrote:

      But I'll say this, first before they can explore that avenue, there going to have to bump her up to a more equal level with Nick.

      What level is Nick on exactly? He just received his mother's head in a box. He isn't really on a high stool right now. He seems pretty shook up if you know what I mean.


      Bootsieginger wrote: Yes, in order for me to accept Trubel as a romantic mate she will have to be bumped up. Nick had a successful, pretty woman as his mate before and probably because of the life she's led, Trubel doesn't come anywhere near that.

      I totally see your point mate.

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    • Blutbau Fuchsbad wrote:

      General MGD 109  wrote:

      But I'll say this, first before they can explore that avenue, there going to have to bump her up to a more equal level with Nick.

      What level is Nick on exactly? He just received his mother's head in a box. He isn't really on a high stool right now. He seems pretty shook up if you know what I mean.

      Yeah he is, but look what he did. Sure he was shook up for the first few minutes, but the moment they got out, he got his head in the game. Compiled his plan on the spot, captured Kenneth and then killed him.

      Then organised the raid on the Royals complex. And everything pretty much worked out exactly as he planned. The only thing he failed at was killing Juliette and that one I can understand.

      Nick is no doubt shook up, but he's also at the top his game and he's incredibly practical. He's got issues, he's got problems, and its all going to go badly in the near future.

      But he can pull through, if he needs to pull through. He's not yet gotten the elite level of his mother, but I think its safe to say he's a worthy second.

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    • ZooBlazer
      ZooBlazer removed this reply because:
      03:53, February 29, 2016
      This reply has been removed
    • Bootsieginger wrote:
      You brought out some interesting points yet I still can't accept Adalind as good and don't want to see her romantically involved with Nick.  You call her human in the way she retaliated from things being done with her.  I've seen her as trouble from day one.  What self respecting woman is going to sleep with two brothers?  Was she in love with both of them or did she have other ideas?  Both times with the brothers she didn't practice safe sex  and being a smart lady lawyer one can't help but think she had ulterior motives. You add Hank and Nick to this woman's list of conquests and she comes off as little more than a high class whore.   May have missed it but Adalind hasn't displayed  a decent bone in her body and to make up for the trouble she's caused she would have to sell her soul to GOD.  Don't know if that's possible for a hexenbiest or anybody but it would be a start.  

      Adalind is not wholly 'good'. She has multiple facets to her personality. She can be manipulative, empathetic, and a good mother at the same time. You seem to hate the fact that she sleeps around, and had had most of the main characters. XD However, in my opinion, this trait is present in all major hexenbiests that I've seen on the show, even Juliet. Then again, I get it. It's simple. You don't like her being romantically involved with Nick. And that's okay.

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    • I do like the idea of Nick and Trubel possibly getting into a love relationship. I liked her the moment I saw her. :D A badass Grimm who porbably is the only one who can understand and accept everything about Nick. Not too sure the writers are willing to explore it though, given the age difference and the current brother-sister relationship they have.

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    • 49.149.8.104 wrote:

      Oh man, this is such a long post, but one last thing, promise!

      Right xD same thought reading half-way through.

      I noticed Renard changed too as he became closer with Nick...

      Adalind was displaying somewhat human features when she cared for her child, I agree. But even animals do that, that isn't exactly a human quality, more like basic parenting. (I did, however, take into consideration your comment about her mother.)

      You're right about the consequences of Juliette's turning into a Hexenbiest. I just found it worth noting that Adalind was responsible for Nick losing his powers...

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    • Blutbau Fuchsbad wrote:
      49.149.8.104 wrote:
      Oh man, this is such a long post, but one last thing, promise!
      Right xD same thought reading half-way through.

      I noticed Renard changed too as he became closer with Nick...

      Adalind was displaying somewhat human features when she cared for her child, I agree. But even animals do that, that isn't exactly a human quality, more like basic parenting. (I did, however, take into consideration your comment about her mother.)

      You're right about the consequences of Juliette's turning into a Hexenbiest. I just found it worth noting that Adalind was responsible for Nick losing his powers...


      Yeah, sorry lol XD I like to be very precise and clear in what I'm trying to convey.

      Humans are animals too!!! :p Well, it's just a way of comparison anyway. Hexenbiests seem like they normally don't care for anything but themselves, so it's a huge departure and worth noting. Remember, she initially wanted to sell the kid to get her powers back, but something in her changed. Also, taking Nick's power was Victor's deal for her to see Diana again. It's not that she's blameless, but she had her reasons. I wish Nick and co. had just told her about their plans. It was cruel to leave her borderline insane and extremely unstable like that. Idk, they should have seen it coming.

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    • 49.149.8.104 wrote: I do like the idea of Nick and Trubel possibly getting into a love relationship. I liked her the moment I saw her. :D A badass Grimm who porbably is the only one who can understand and accept everything about Nick. Not too sure the writers are willing to explore it though, given the age difference and the current brother-sister relationship they have.

      The age difference between adalind and renard is bigger than nicks and trubels if you look at birthdays

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    • So Nick either dates his rapist or his quasi foster-sister? EW. If either of these happens, I won't be sad if Seaon 5 will be the last. 

      Seriously, Nick just lost both his mother and the love of his life, and you are already shipping him with every single woman on the main cast? Maybe let him grieve? He deserves happiness, and the thought of him with Adalind makes me sick. I sometimes wonder if the Nick-Adaling shippers actually hate Nick, and that's why they want him to end up with someone like Adalind. Or maybe they've been watching a Grimm from an alternate universe. Can't think of any valid reason why those two should ever be involved romantically.

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    • 137.50.29.22 wrote: So Nick either dates his rapist or his quasi foster-sister? EW. If either of these happens, I won't be sad if Seaon 5 will be the last. 

      Seriously, Nick just lost both his mother and the love of his life, and you are already shipping him with every single woman on the main cast? Maybe let him grieve? He deserves happiness, and the thought of him with Adalind makes me sick. I sometimes wonder if the Nick-Adaling shippers actually hate Nick, and that's why they want him to end up with someone like Adalind. Or maybe they've been watching a Grimm from an alternate universe. Can't think of any valid reason why those two should ever be involved romantically.

      At comic con the writers straight out said that Nick and adalind are gonna have some Type of realsionship for their child sake

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    • 137.50.29.22 wrote: So Nick either dates his rapist or his quasi foster-sister? EW. If either of these happens, I won't be sad if Seaon 5 will be the last.

       

      I agree with you in sentiment, but truthfully I would (shows can survive bizar pairings, and we can always keep hoping they'll just get hit by a pus between seasons or something.)

      137.50.29.22 wrote: Seriously, Nick just lost both his mother and the love of his life, and you are already shipping him with every single woman on the main cast? Maybe let him grieve?

      I agree, even if he does get another relationship, I hope its not till most of the season has gone by. The guy's got enough on his plate without needing romance.

      137.50.29.22 wrote: He deserves happiness, and the thought of him with Adalind makes me sick. I sometimes wonder if the Nick-Adaling shippers actually hate Nick, and that's why they want him to end up with someone like Adalind. Or maybe they've been watching a Grimm from an alternate universe. Can't think of any valid reason why those two should ever be involved romantically.

      Well the reason for Nick-Adalind shippers is not out of distain for the characters. Its as she is his enemy, Nick's had more intense interactions with Adalind in the show, than he has had with any other woman.

      This, and the fact the two have chemistry, leads some people to seeing things that aren't there.

      And of course the fact their going to have a child together.

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    • Relieved to see I'm not the only one who doesn't care for a Adalind or Trubel pairing with Nick. There's been comments that I don't like Adalind.  This is true.  Realize that one needs a bad element to keep the story going and Adalind fills the bill. Some say, and I agree that Adalind is retaliating from what's been done to her and being a hexiebiest her ugly behavior is justified.  That's tantamount to saying that a murderer is justfied in killing people because he (or she) was raised in a bad environment. Must admit I don't see the chemistry between the two--can anyone elaborate on the chemistry?  May have missed something important indicating this.

      As far as Trubel, I like the girl and looking forward to seeing much more of her in the future episodes.  One commenter likened she and Nick's relationship as a brotherly, little sister type of bond and it should stay that way.  One person that Nick can count on through thick and thin.  Nick has Hank as a close friend but having a friend who's powers equals his own would be grand.  

      Would also be great for Hank to start seeing the Grimms--too bad that when he was conjugating with Adalind NOTHING good came of it.  Maybe he was lucky after all--look at the people she did sleep with and how their lives were affected.

      So looking towards future episodes and how will Nick balance being  full-time detective with collaborating with Renard and his royal situation.

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    • Bootsieginger wrote: Relieved to see I'm not the only one who doesn't care for a Adalind or Trubel pairing with Nick.

      Well I don't ship them, and I don't want them to get together. But at the same time I won't rule them out, as several other shows have pulled the rug from under my feet.

      Bootsieginger wrote: Some say, and I agree that Adalind is retaliating from what's been done to her and being a hexiebiest her ugly behavior is justified.  That's tantamount to saying that a murderer is justfied in killing people because he (or she) was raised in a bad environment.

      Now I'm a little sympathetic toward Adalind as she really didn't have a good life, and did have Hexenbiest insticts driving her. But I don't think that's enough to forgive her. She's now on the right path, having finally figured out that the Royals are simply using her and will screw her over at the end (arguably you could say Kenneth did her a world of good, as he didn't even pretend that it would end well for her), and showing signs of learning from her former mistakes.

      But until she shows she's truly dedicated to reforming, I don't think she'll be forgiven, both inverse and out.

      Bootsieginger wrote: Must admit I don't see the chemistry between the two--can anyone elaborate on the chemistry?  May have missed something important indicating this.

      Just type in 33 reasons to ship Nick and Adalind in Youtube, that will help.

      Bootsieginger wrote: As far as Trubel, I like the girl and looking forward to seeing much more of her in the future episodes.  One commenter likened she and Nick's relationship as a brotherly, little sister type of bond and it should stay that way.  One person that Nick can count on through thick and thin.  

      Agreed. They work as siblings (a good portion of the fans believe they might be cousins), and I don't want to watch that change. Really if Jacqueline had been cast as Nick's little sister back in season one, nobody would have a problem believing it.

      Bootsieginger wrote: Nick has Hank as a close friend but having a friend who's powers equals his own would be grand.  

      Would also be great for Hank to start seeing the Grimms--too bad that when he was conjugating with Adalind NOTHING good came of it.  Maybe he was lucky after all--look at the people she did sleep with and how their lives were affected.

      Agreed and oh yeah I remember that theory. Still its probably best to have a few normal people in the group, it helps keep the others grounded, and lets more perspectives.

      And I like Hank, he's a solid lancer. Its good to hear he's getting his own plotline next season.

      Bootsieginger wrote: So looking towards future episodes and how will Nick balance being  full-time detective with collaborating with Renard and his royal situation.

      As am I.

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    • Since it's summer and I have nothing better to do, I have been rewatching Grimm (again). And I still can't see that chemistry between Nick and Adalind people keep talking about. All I see is hatred. Nick came close to killing her, yet shipper interpret that as some sign of true love. That's why I hate shippers, they have no regard for the canon. Look at popular ships, like Destiel, Sam-Dean, Sterek, it doesn't matter if the characters hate each other, are not gay, are in fact brothers, shippers will still be convinced that it's true love and end game.

      Would it be such a big request for the creators to start focusing on the plot instead of the soap opera style romance? I don't like how this who has turned into the Adalind Show, where she sleeps with everyone, gets pregnant, has magical baby. Repeat ad nauseam. This used to be about Grimms, Wessen and Royals, please go back to that. But I don't have high hopes for that, since Adalind is on her way to becoming Juliette 2.0.

      I guess out of the ships Nick-Trubel is the lesser evil, at least they actually like each other, although in a brother-sister way, and she is not a horrible person like Adalind. Nick really deserves so much better than Adalind. I feel so sorry for him, being stuck with Adalind after all what he's been through. Hasn't he suffered enough? Also, poor kid as well. 

      Why are people saying Adalind had a terrible life that's why she is such a horrible person? Nick had it worse, Trubel had it even more worse, and look how they turned out. Even Sean had it worse, and he turned out more or less okay.

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    • Amelyan wrote:

      Since it's summer and I have nothing better to do, I have been rewatching Grimm (again). And I still can't see that chemistry between Nick and Adalind people keep talking about. All I see is hatred. Nick came close to killing her, yet shipper interpret that as some sign of true love.

      Well I understand if you don't, but their chemistry doesn't have to be romantic, their scenes together are generally very good ones. Likewise, your right there is hatred, but to some people all that's important is there is passion, there is fire, and they misread this as the other sort of passion.

      Amelyan wrote: Would it be such a big request for the creators to start focusing on the plot instead of the soap opera style romance? I don't like how this who has turned into the Adalind Show, where she sleeps with everyone, gets pregnant, has magical baby. Repeat ad nauseam. This used to be about Grimms, Wessen and Royals, please go back to that. But I don't have high hopes for that, since Adalind is on her way to becoming Juliette 2.0.

      Well I think you're exaggerating just a little bit, its not like that dominates the story. Just Adalind's own storyline. I admit doing it twice was a bit much, but I think the purpose behind it was a little different. The first time around it started off with her trying to carry on being a player (even though she was only ever a piece) but end up offering her a chance at redemption, all so they could rip it away when Karma caught up to her for all the things she had done up to this point.

      The second time, well I think that was Karma as well, just a bit different. After all she took advantage of Nick to steal his powers, what's more kamatic than it ending up with her being the one suffer for that?

      Amelyan wrote:

      I guess out of the ships Nick-Trubel is the lesser evil, at least they actually like each other, although in a brother-sister way, and she is not a horrible person like Adalind.

      I'll be honest, I agree Nick and Trubel actually like each other. But I think I'm more against them ending up together, than Nick and Adalind. Something about them doing so, at the moment at least, kind of feels incestuous (sure there not really siblings, but they sell it very well).

      Amelyan wrote:

      Nick really deserves so much better than Adalind. I feel so sorry for him, being stuck with Adalind after all what he's been through. Hasn't he suffered enough? Also, poor kid as well. 

      I don't want them together, but I do hope that all this turns out to be enough to get Adalind on the road to redemption. I mean she's done horrible things, but she suffers for them, she still has plenty of suffering to do first, but she's getting there.

      Amelyan wrote: Why are people saying Adalind had a terrible life that's why she is such a horrible person? Nick had it worse, Trubel had it even more worse, and look how they turned out. Even Sean had it worse, and he turned out more or less okay.

      Well it comes down to the fact Adalind's was outright abusive, rather than simply tragic. Now no one is saying she holds the monopoly on having a hard life. Or that that is a justification for everything she does.

      Its more a lessening factor.

      Looking over her history, she has legitemently being used, abused, exploited and/or betrayed by every single person she ever put her trust into. From that its enough for some fans to wonder, if she actually had a positive relationship in her life, maybe she wouldn't be such a bad person.

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    • General MGD 109 wrote:
      Looking over her history, she has legitemently being used, abused, exploited and/or betrayed by every single person she ever put her trust into. From that its enough for some fans to wonder, if she actually had a positive relationship in her life, maybe she wouldn't be such a bad person.

      I hate Adalind more than pretty much anyone. She's done some pretty terrible things. But I have to agree with this. Even Sean (who's supposed to be a somewhat good guy) screwed her over. Calling her Just another pretty face... I hated her but that was cruel. She just lost her mother... she just lost her powers... and basically just lost her life. And Sean says she's just another pretty face.

      Don't get me wrong, I still hate her. But I am a little more sympathetic, she was screwed over all her life.

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    • General MGD 109 wrote:

      Well I think you're exaggerating just a little bit, its not like that dominates the story. Just Adalind's own storyline. I admit doing it twice was a bit much, but I think the purpose behind it was a little different. The first time around it started off with her trying to carry on being a player (even though she was only ever a piece) but end up offering her a chance at redemption, all so they could rip it away when Karma caught up to her for all the things she had done up to this point.

      The second time, well I think that was Karma as well, just a bit different. After all she took advantage of Nick to steal his powers, what's more kamatic than it ending up with her being the one suffer for that?

      Yes, I am exaggerating, but compared to her original, season 1 role, Adalind has turned into a main character. Other than her funny one liners, I don't see the point in her, she made a terrible villain (if you could actually call her that) and in order for her to become a member of the scooby gang, her whole personality and history with the characters has to be rewritten, and I am not looking forward to that. I don't see it as karma, I think she got off easy. She should/would have been killed either by the Royals or by Nick, but instead she will be protected forever by Nick, Sean and the scooby gang, because of the kid. Instead of paying for what she has done, she will live happily ever after. And that's not fair. Look at what she has done to Juliette, it's her fault she turned into a hexenbeast and got killed, it was supposed to be her with Nick but instead she is dead. Adalind hit the jackpot with Nick's baby, because whatever crimes she has committed and will commit, Nick will never hurt her.

      General MGD 109 wrote: Well it comes down to the fact Adalind's was outright abusive, rather than simply tragic. Now no one is saying she holds the monopoly on having a hard life. Or that that is a justification for everything she does.

      Its more a lessening factor.

      Looking over her history, she has legitemently being used, abused, exploited and/or betrayed by every single person she ever put her trust into. From that its enough for some fans to wonder, if she actually had a positive relationship in her life, maybe she wouldn't be such a bad person.

      Well, considering that we haven't actually seen much of her past, so I am not convinced that she had it so bad. Upbringing certainly has influence on us, but to blame her mother not loving her for Adalind turning out to be a selfish, vain, power-hungry and vindictive human being is a bit too much for me. She knew what she wanted, and was willing to do anything to get it. She sold her own baby for power. There is nothing that would absolve her of that.

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    • Amelyan wrote: Yes, I am exaggerating, but compared to her original, season 1 role, Adalind has turned into a main character.

      Wasn't she a main character back in season 1? I agree her role has gotten bigger, perhaps unnecessarily.

      Amelyan wrote: Other than her funny one liners, I don't see the point in her, she made a terrible villain (if you could actually call her that)

      I agree, she wasn't a very good villain. But I think that's kind of the point, she always was an arrogant smug snake, trying to compete in a world with genuine experts.

      As for her point, well just like the others she's a take on popular fairy tale archetypes, namely the wicked witch and the dark mistress.

      Amelyan wrote: and in order for her to become a member of the scooby gang, her whole personality and history with the characters has to be rewritten, and I am not looking forward to that.

      I agree I don't want it to be rewritten. But I don't know if that would be necessary, I mean she has to improve and become a better person sure for them to except her. But Adalind has shown the occasional softer side over the years, and I don't think redemption is beyond her. She seems to have finally learned she's not good enough to play the games she wants to, and they will just end up with her dead if she carries on.

      I don't think there over look her past though, her struggling to make up for the past and move on with her life, would be much more interesting to watch.

      Amelyan wrote: I don't see it as karma, I think she got off easy. She should/would have been killed either by the Royals or by Nick, but instead she will be protected forever by Nick, Sean and the scooby gang, because of the kid. Instead of paying for what she has done, she will live happily ever after. And that's not fair. Look at what she has done to Juliette, it's her fault she turned into a hexenbeast and got killed, it was supposed to be her with Nick but instead she is dead. Adalind hit the jackpot with Nick's baby, because whatever crimes she has committed and will commit, Nick will never hurt her.

      I don't know if she's been let off that easily. I mean Adalind generally does pay for everything she does, karma always catches up with her. I mean the entire fourth season was more or less Karma for what she did at the end of Season 3.

      First she gets screwed over again and locked up in horrible dungeon. Then she outright gets tortured for several days (exactly how is never explained, but I'm assuming they subjected her to several powerful hallucinogenic's thus explaining all those surreal and nightmarish hallucinations), then upon getting back her first efforts backfire and she ends up beaten up. She then discovers she's now pregnant with Nick's child. Then in an element of pure Karma Juliette outright tries to kill her, even when she's only out dress shopping. Then the royals effectively sell her out and she's forced to place her life in the hands of the people who probably should kill her. And finally she ends up having to give up her powers (meaning everything she sort and suffered for during season 2 and 3 was for nothing) to save her own life. By the end of the season she's homeless, penniless, powerless and only living because of the mercy of the one person whose got the most reasons to hate her, and that she's probably the most afraid of.

      Personally I call that Karma.

      Plus I don't think the fact she's now the mother of Nick's child means she's completely safe. Sure Nick's not going to hurt her while she's carrying, and I doubt Nick wants to rip a child away from its mother. But if she steps out of line then really there is nothing stopping him simply taking his son away from her.

      I mean what's she going to do? She couldn't beat him when she was fully powered and he was still learning the ropes, now he's an experienced warrior and she's powerless. And as there child was conceived non-consensually legally she doesn't have a leg to stand on. And if she took it to a wesen court they would most likely burn her at the stake for sleeping with a Grimm (once they had made sure doing so would not bring down said Grimm's wrath).

      So in essence, Adalind's got another chance (around her fourth I think by this point, probably more than she deserves, but she's gotten it) but that doesn't mean if she's now safe and has any actual power in this new relationship.

      If she starts to slip, Nick will probably just take his son away or kill her. And I don't doubt he'll make this very clear to her.

      Likewise I somehow have a feeling, Adalind's got a bit more suffering ahead of her.

      Amelyan wrote: Well, considering that we haven't actually seen much of her past, so I am not convinced that she had it so bad. Upbringing certainly has influence on us, but to blame her mother not loving her for Adalind turning out to be a selfish, vain, power-hungry and vindictive human being is a bit too much for me.

      Now I'm not saying having an abusive mom absolves Adalind or excuses her in any way. But from what we saw of Catherine Schade, she was an uncaring stage mother, who was only kind to Adalind when she felt the girl could benefit her, and disowned her the moment she stopped being beneficial. She was also a smug bitch, happy to throw her weight around and bully those weaker than her. All that goes to explain how Adalind turned out so self serving and morally bankrupt.

      Likewise Adalind does have the slight problem, of all those Hexenbiest instincts driving her (the same one's that turned Juliette evil). Again this doesn't pardon her, but it helps lesser it to bad but still redeemable.

      Amelyan wrote: She knew what she wanted, and was willing to do anything to get it. She sold her own baby for power. There is nothing that would absolve her of that.

      Well she did more or less try and back out of the deal, the moment she realised what she was doing. And its not like she got out of that easy.

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    • Keep remembering what Adalind sais when she gave birth, albeit painful.  "Don't let this thing kill me!".  Sounds like a good possible mother, eh?

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    • Amelyan wrote:

      Why are people saying Adalind had a terrible life that's why she is such a horrible person? Nick had it worse, Trubel had it even more worse, and look how they turned out. Even Sean had it worse, and he turned out more or less okay.


      Excellent point.
      I totally agree. We have only Adalind's word for it about her childhood...and she lies, a lot.

      I'm still struggling with this whole idea of a 'reformed Adalind'.
      It will be hard for me to ever trust her after all that she's done.

      I like Claire Coffee, though, and I think she is a really good actress.
      Perhaps it's because she is so likeable in real life, that's why the writers are doing this switch with her character?
      I don't know.

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    • Bootsieginger wrote:
      Keep remembering what Adalind sais when she gave birth, albeit painful.  "Don't let this thing kill me!".  Sounds like a good possible mother, eh?

      XDD Women in labor tends to through words around themselves they don't neccessarily really mean that way XDD I wouldn't nail her on that one comment...


      Though I've never been a fan of Adalind and I very much dislike her for her selling Diana for Power, she is not that evil witch she probably wanted to be... her life tends to get on the tragic side...

      If she's able to redeem herself... only time will tell. But she has no other option left, than trying her best. After giving birth to the boy she probably could start working as a lawyer again and thus affort her own home, but till then, she is bound to get help from others.

      Btw, does anyone ever think about the Captains part in this? After all, he was the one sending Adalind after Nick, Marie and Hank in the first place. Yes he got 'purified' and after that he acted more... friendly, but was his sceme ever revealed to Nick and the gang? Nick distrusted him because of the key, his beeing a royal and this whole 'kiss the girl awake' thing, but did he ever realise that Renard was more for Adalind than just her Lover?

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    • Consider all of Adalinds actions including trying to kill Nick aunt was to get the key. The key that SEan gave back to Nick. So I would say Nick realizes that Sean was behind Adalind first attackes. 

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    • I agree, I think Nick does know, didn't he call him out part of it during their fight?

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    • To be honest friends, when i heard they are saying that Nick and Adlind are going to live together, i felt that ...

      sorry i cant find fit word in English but it was very annoying.

      now i am more relax. let see what will happen

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    • Wolfwand wrote:
      To be honest friends, when i heard they are saying that Nick and Adlind are going to live together, i felt that ...

      sorry i cant find fit word in English but it was very annoying.

      now i am more relax. let see what will happen

      Thinking of a certain subject certainly can change perspective. Intresting, isn't it?

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    • @scott Trooper 164

      my prespective is not changed, dude. i become more Carefree- hope i've used right word-

      i still think it is a disaster. but who cares. let see "happy ever after" . if that is what they are going to be.

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    • Wolfwand wrote:
      @scott Trooper 164

      my prespective is not changed, dude. i become more Carefree- hope i've used right word-

      i still think it is a disaster. but who cares. let see "happy ever after" . if that is what they are going to be.

      My mistake then.

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    • Scout Trooper 164 wrote:
      Wolfwand wrote:
      @scott Trooper 164

      my prespective is not changed, dude. i become more Carefree- hope i've used right word-

      i still think it is a disaster. but who cares. let see "happy ever after" . if that is what they are going to be.

      My mistake then.

      (:

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    • Wolfwand wrote: To be honest friends, when i heard they are saying that Nick and Adlind are going to live together, i felt that ...

      sorry i cant find fit word in English but it was very annoying.

      now i am more relax. let see what will happen

      Yeah I know what you mean. Still as you say, lets see what will happen.

      After all, even if they do live together for a while it doesn't automatically mean to much. I mean Adalind is after homeless and more or less penniless at the moment.

      Likewise I can understand Nick wanting to keep a close eye on his son.

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    • @ Genaral MGD

      hope so just be at this level.  in this level i have no problem.he is doing good thing.

      but i dont know why i think it wont be stop in this level.

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    • Yeah, that worries me to.

      I hope they don't go down that route, and while innocent for the moment. It is certainly a possibility.

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    • It isn't just the fact that she's done bad things, but I think it's too cheesy and predictable for the writers to go that route. I want them to surprise us... Which they've had no trouble doing (atleast for me)... I hope they keep surprising us. Also, let's be realistic. A baby with your enemy doesn't automatically spark love (Especially if it was without your consent). So atleast if they do go that route they have a long road.

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    • Blutbau Fuchsbad wrote: It isn't just the fact that she's done bad things, but I think it's too cheesy and predictable for the writers to go that route. I want them to surprise us... Which they've had no trouble doing (atleast for me)... I hope they keep surprising us.

      Agreed. And they can, I hope they continue to.

      Blutbau Fuchsbad wrote: Also, let's be realistic. A baby with your enemy doesn't automatically spark love (Especially if it was without your consent). So atleast if they do go that route they have a long road.

      Yeah it doesn't. It will take a long time before there good enough, for either of them to even consider going further.

      Presently all they have is a momentary truce, and some sympathy. That's not enough to build a relationship, let alone repair several years of misdeeds.

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    • @ General MGD

      i have no prespective about this kind of relationships... in my country , people should marry first then having baby!!! but i think when 2 people are living under a roof for long time - what i see it is going happen- they will be friends...and in nick and adlind case, they have lost everything and have samething to be worry about it...

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    • General MGD 109 wrote:

      Yeah it doesn't. It will take a long time before there good enough, for either of them to even consider going further.

      Presently all they have is a momentary truce, and some sympathy. That's not enough to build a relationship, let alone repair several years of misdeeds.

      True, I also wonder how Monroe and Rosalee will take this (they were terrified of even Juliette.) And of course there is Trubel and Hank... Hank being one of her victims.

      Oops.

      If it does happen, it would be funny to see all of the reactions.

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    • Blutbau Fuchsbad wrote:
      General MGD 109 wrote:

      Yeah it doesn't. It will take a long time before there good enough, for either of them to even consider going further.

      Presently all they have is a momentary truce, and some sympathy. That's not enough to build a relationship, let alone repair several years of misdeeds.

      True, I also wonder how Monroe and Rosalee will take this (they were terrified of even Juliette.) And of course there is Trubel and Hank... Hank being one of her victims.

      Oops.

      If it does happen, it would be funny to see all of the reactions.

      i can imagine.

      i really like to see kelly's face, unfortunatly never we can see . when she might figure it out , that nick has a Grimm-hexenbiest child XD XD

      Trubel's face was funny .

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    • Syscrash53 wrote:
      Consider all of Adalinds actions including trying to kill Nick aunt was to get the key. The key that SEan gave back to Nick. So I would say Nick realizes that Sean was behind Adalind first attackes. 

      Not neccessarily... Adalind never mentioned it and Sean didn't either. And no one else of the Scooby Gang did even consider Seans involvement till he returned the key. And after that the blame always was on Adalind. For the cookies, for the scratch, even for trying to murder Marie. Didn't Renard always say he didn't know what Adalind would do?

      But until they actually talk about it in the show, we can only speculate how much Nick knows...

      Unless I missed something. If I did, please tell me, I'm wondering about that fact for years now... ^^°

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    • Wolfwand wrote:
      True, I also wonder how Monroe and Rosalee will take this (they were terrified of even Juliette.) And of course there is Trubel and Hank... Hank being one of her victims.

      Oops.

      If it does happen, it would be funny to see all of the reactions.

      i can imagine.

      i really like to see kelly's face, unfortunatly never we can see . when she might figure it out , that nick has a Grimm-hexenbiest child XD XD

      Trubel's face was funny .

      Haha I know right. Imagine his mother, being the one that killed his "Future Mother-In-Law". That would be priceless.

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    • I hope Adalind and Nkick become a full couple..

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    • 67.61.174.215 wrote:
      I hope Adalind and Nkick become a full couple..

      1. That's gonna draw criticism.

      2. The birth of the baby is causing Adalind's a chance to pass away, not likely.

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    • 67.61.174.215 wrote:
      I hope Adalind and Nkick become a full couple..

      oh yes. i really like to see it too!!!! happily ever after.

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    • Wolfwand wrote:
      67.61.174.215 wrote:
      I hope Adalind and Nkick become a full couple..
      oh yes. i really like to see it too!!!! happily ever after.

      Did you have a nightmare ???

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    • sort of :)

      you are only one know what does it mean XD

      why not? adlind and nick and their baby.... cute couple... did not juliete said that?! you read it in juliet feel in police station.

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    • Wolfwand wrote:
      sort of :)

      you are only one know what does it mean XD

      why not? adlind and nick and their baby.... cute couple... did not juliete said that?! you read it in juliet feel in police station.

      Thank goodness at least Juliette didn't kill Adalind's, or else the idea of a grimm-wesen hybrid would be shoved away.

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    • are you sure a supressed hexenbiest will be for rest of her life?

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    • Wolfwand wrote:
      are you sure a supressed hexenbiest will be for rest of her life?

      Nah. Suppressants aren't permenant, nor reversed, it'll probably end sometime. Well, not for a while at least. She probably won't have time to use them though, because her life is gonna drop slowly after she gives birth, it'll probably catch up to her and make her life harder, along for her son, who'll probably only have his dad. Seriously, these conceptions that are gonna threaten her life are no joke, a mother can actually die sometime after they give birth.

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    • Thankfully, she'll live long enough to be mother of the year.

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    • she wont dead dear Trooper, beleive me.

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    • Wolfwand wrote:
      sort of :)

      why not? adlind and nick and their baby.... cute couple... did not juliete said that?! you read it in juliet feel in police station.

      Oh yes. If a false snake transforms into something which it is not. Very cute. XXD

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    • Of course the relationship of Nick/Adalind is changing. In fact is changed already, since they´re friends almost. He was the last episodes of season 4 asking "Where is Adalind"? Nick is depending of her a lot, since his trailer is gone, for his cases, not just by their great bond . She could to be a valuable ally for him, since she has a lot of knowledge by her nature of Wesen, now supressed. 

      Since i saw Nick talking with her in the bed, all is possible. But is important that they stop of try to kill each other the whole time. The things between them can not to follow as they were before, being enemies. Now they´ll be parents, and they could to have an oportunity of learn to meet them really how they´re . Adalind´s past must be left behind her, and start a good redemption arc, a little like Spike in Buffy. Everybody deserves a second chance, and in this season 5 that is coming Nick will be more darker than ever. 

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    • 83.97.196.76 wrote:
      Of course the relationship of Nick/Adalind is changing. In fact is changed already, since they´re friends almost. He was the last episodes of season 4 asking "Where is Adalind"? Nick is depending of her a lot, since his trailer is gone, for his cases, not just by their great bond . She could to be a valuable ally for him, since she has a lot of knowledge by her nature of Wesen, now supressed. 

      Since i saw Nick talking with her in the bed, all is possible. But is important that they stop of try to kill each other the whole time. The things between them can not to follow as they were before, being enemies. Now they´ll be parents, and they could to have an oportunity of learn to meet them really how they´re . Adalind´s past must be left behind her, and start a good redemption arc, a little like Spike in Buffy. Everybody deserves a second chance, and in this season 5 that is coming Nick will be more darker than ever. 

      he still relies on her even tho her powers are surpressed

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    • is it just me or do i have a feeling that juliette is gonna come back from the dead and kill adalind. i mean, sean got brought back

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    • no , Kingmoses you are not only one.

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    • but i dont think she back for killing either.

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    • I've got an idea about what their sons type is gonna be.

      Can you have a male hexienbiest?

      Wait, no that's a zauberbeist.

      Introducing....

      The ZAUBERGRIMM.

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    • well maybe are 2 persons who will think that Juliette come back, but hey, don´t worry, i believe in Santa Claus too. Not problem. 

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    • It just feels so wrong that Adalind ends up with Nick who was Juliette boyfriend when the reason why Juliette became a Hexienbeast which would eventually lead to her death was because of Adalind. If Adalind didn't took away Nick's power, Juliette wouldn't have to do that ritual to help restore Nick's power and she becomes a Hexienbeast. Not only that, it was thanks to Adalind that led to Juliette to lose all her memory of Nick in season 2 and the whole struggle they have to get through for Juliette to regain her memory and rebuild her relationship and trust with Nick. Why does Adalind get to ruin Juliette's life and get Juliette's boyfriend? It just doesn't seem fair. It might seem too unfair to Adalind with what she had been through I know, but she shouldn't end up with the boyfriend of a woman she helped ruined the life of.

      I still wondered to this day that they purposely make Juilette evil and eventually die and had Adalind carry Nick's baby just so the writers have a excuse to have Nick end up with Adalind.

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    • Summonmoon wrote:
      It just feels so wrong that Adalind ends up with Nick who was Juliette boyfriend when the reason why Juliette became a Hexienbeast which would eventually lead to her death was because of Adalind. If Adalind didn't took away Nick's power, Juliette wouldn't have to do that ritual to help restore Nick's power and she becomes a Hexienbeast. Not only that, it was thanks to Adalind that led to Juliette to lose all her memory of Nick in season 2 and the whole struggle they have to get through for Juliette to regain her memory and rebuild her relationship and trust with Nick. Why does Adalind get to ruin Juliette's life and get Juliette's boyfriend? It just doesn't seem fair. It might seem too unfair to Adalind with what she had been through I know, but she shouldn't end up with the boyfriend of a woman she helped ruined the life of.

      I still wondered to this day that they purposely make Juilette evil and eventually die and had Adalind carry Nick's baby just so the writers have a excuse to have Nick end up with Adalind.

      No, they did this because it was the way the show went. Everyone was aware that Nick wouldn't want to be with Adalind, but due to the flow of the story, it came to that, it's not their fault.

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    • Some people are forgetting that Viktor ordered Adalind into taking Nick's grimm powers. She didn't think that it was possible until Viktor reminded her that she has the blood of the Grimm in her. She reason she followed his orders was because she thought Viktor had Diana.

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    • 83.97.196.76 wrote:
      well maybe are 2 persons who will think that Juliette come back, but hey, don´t worry, i believe in Santa Claus too. Not problem. 

      XD XD

      like that.

      yes i agree with you in all the world maybe we are two people who want julitte back XD XD

      i realized it few weeks ago . :) . let me see what her furenal will goes, after that , i will decide, she will back or not. 

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    • Grimm4life wrote:
      Some people are forgetting that Viktor ordered Adalind into taking Nick's grimm powers. She didn't think that it was possible until Viktor reminded her that she has the blood of the Grimm in her. She reason she followed his orders was because she thought Viktor had Diana.

      I was a little surprised she agreed to work with him given that he tricked her like that, and put her in that cell/torture chamber. True, she wanted Diana back, but she should have been wary of him given what he did. Anyway, at least now I feel she's realizing Nick, unlike the Royals, has no secret agenda of his own and won't go around her like that. So I expect she won't betray him to them again. They might make it appear she did only to show it was a plan between her and Nick to defeat the Royals. But if she betrays him of her own free will, that will be the end of giving her more chances I feel.

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    • 71.166.62.83 wrote:

      I was a little surprised she agreed to work with him given that he tricked her like that, and put her in that cell/torture chamber. True, she wanted Diana back, but she should have been wary of him given what he did.

      Yeah, still Adalind can be a bit short sighted. And as you say she was desperate to get her daughter back. Really Kenneth arguably did her a world of good, he was the only one who didn't even bother leading her along. And that potentially managed to break out of her destructive cycle.

      71.166.62.83 wrote: Anyway, at least now I feel she's realizing Nick, unlike the Royals, has no secret agenda of his own and won't go around her like that. So I expect she won't betray him to them again.

      I agree, Adalind is clearly weary, but hopefully having a few positive relations may do her a world of good.

      While she brings a lot of her suffering on herself, legitemently its a bit sad that every single person she ever trusted has used, abused or betrayed her.

      71.166.62.83 wrote: They might make it appear she did only to show it was a plan between her and Nick to defeat the Royals. But if she betrays him of her own free will, that will be the end of giving her more chances I feel.

      Interesting idea, and yeah if it happens again her head will probably come off.

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    • Well, hopefully her son will be what keeps her from betraying Nick, since we know she wants to be a good mother to both Diana and the boy.

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    • I SHIP IT SO HARD ACTUALLY, NADALIND

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    • What I see is Adalind warming up to Nick but Juliette memory will always be in the way.  There will be a number of times when Nick keeps comparing Adalind to Juliette.   We have seen in the first episode he hears her voice. This is going to be an on going theme.  I get the feeling Juliette being dead will never  be truly answered. The writers will keep messing with use with the idea of Juliette being in Nicks head or is it her trying to reach out.   Episode two might give us more when we here what Truble says about what they did with the body.  Of course they could even play that with her not knowing what they did. They could even have Truble knowing she shot Juliette and should be dead but she is not really sure.

      Considering even while dying Chavez would still not give up the info plus you get the impresson Chavez is a shoulder and does not know the whole truth.  

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    • really if we see the source of all the hate between Adalind & Nick, we´ll find how was not just her who lied to him. Is true, Adalind took the Nick´s powers off, but he did the same to her, for keep Hank´s life. Leting aside their purpuses, Nick was very cruel with her when he took off her daughter and leaded the betray for lie to her and steal to Diana. Later , Adalind just slept with Nick because she was desperate, as any good mother in recover Diana back, and Victor lied to her with have the child, in change of took off the Nick´s Grimm powers....but in the way, she got pregnant with Nick´s baby. Was like a kind of the fate´s twist, but really i´m watching a bond between these two, Nick & Adalind that i can not explain. Is beyond the hate, beyond the love...is like if the destiny would be determined to keep them together, making a kind of team, of family...i noticed how Nick reacts when he sees her, and if not just hate, there is some of sexeye between them, in the jail scene my fears were confirmed, when she spoke about have " a kind of magic" between Nick and herself....really, really i think they are gonna to hook up in Season 5, their son is who will pull them more nearer, and their news changes. in 5X01 Nick does not seem Nick and she´s not the same Adalind. Nick will find in his house a blonde unknown woman living and taking care of his son...i just can see that. She´s not juliette, nick always will love Juliette, the love never dies, but Adalind is just very cute, and she is harmless right now. for what she was gonna betray Nick? She needs him, is not her, is not about him neither, is about Kelly Schade burkhardt. I think that if one day she find to Nick a little weak, she could hook up with him....maybe in the end of season. i just am a shipper of them and i am hoping that they cross the point of not return, but this time will be real. 

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    • Looking forward to how this story pans out.  Still don't like Adalind for what she did to Nick and Juliette and don't want to see her end up with him.  Some are making a lot of her wanting to be a mother but her behavior is really fuzzy regarding this,  the first time she was pregnant with Capt Renald's baby she didn't care about the baby--she just wanted her powers back.  

      Will be interesting if Juliette came back.

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    • I could see Adalind wanting to be with Nick. If see does get close to Nick I would have positive feelings knowing she is trying to make a better life for herself and her child.  It is NIck that I would lose all respect for.  How ever you look at it Jluiette is dead because of Adalind. Four seasons of Juliette being subjected to all kind of torments because of Adalind actions.  The comment blame Juliette for Kelly dying. People forget it was Adalind that made Kelly a target in the first place.  People blame Nick for taking her child. It was Kelly that keep her safe. If not for Nick, Sean, and Kelly Diana would have been taken by the Royals. There is no story line that could have explained how ADalind could have keep Diana from the Royals. Even the idea of ADalind taking the child and running. ADalind has no ability to live on the run. She has never shown to be self reliant. She has always shown to be a keep women. Even now someone is taking care of her.  

      The only story that will make this bearable is Adalind tries to do right but like an addict the real Adalind kicks in an she agains go back to looking out for herselfr. 

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    • Syscrash53 wrote:
      I could see Adalind wanting to be with Nick. If see does get close to Nick I would have positive feelings knowing she is trying to make a better life for herself and her child.  It is NIck that I would lose all respect for.  How ever you look at it Jluiette is dead because of Adalind. Four seasons of Juliette being subjected to all kind of torments because of Adalind actions.  The comment blame Juliette for Kelly dying. People forget it was Adalind that made Kelly a target in the first place.  People blame Nick for taking her child. It was Kelly that keep her safe. If not for Nick, Sean, and Kelly Diana would have been taken by the Royals. There is no story line that could have explained how ADalind could have keep Diana from the Royals. Even the idea of ADalind taking the child and running. ADalind has no ability to live on the run. She has never shown to be self reliant. She has always shown to be a keep women. Even now someone is taking care of her.  

      The only story that will make this bearable is Adalind tries to do right but like an addict the real Adalind kicks in an she agains go back to looking out for herselfr. 

      Juliette did not die by ADALIND´S FAUL, WAS HER OWN DECISION. Adalind prepared for her a potion for supress the hexenbeast of her, but she wanted to stand with the Rolyals betraying Nick. Is enough blame to Adalind by all the bad things in the series. Adalind was villain while a lot of time, but now she´s trying to change. Juliette was a true villain too, so delete that Juliette´s halo of saint, does not fit to her for nothing. Juliette killed Nick´s mum, a woman who trusted in her with all her soul, protecting Diana. Is repulsive what Juliette did. 


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    • I just know one thing: Nick & Adalind have an INSANE chemistry and sexual tension. while Juliette and Nick were like a marriage of 40 years. was such bored as the hell....AND now we have finally Adalind/Nick together. she´s not an Hexebiest with powers and he needs to his son. NOW IS THE MOMENT for create an epic love story for two nemesis. There is nothing glorious in a usual lovestory as Nick X Juliette, while that Nick x Adalind..."woo the sparks jump". 

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    • To the OP: Honestly, I think that Nick is doing a very difficult thing, agreeing to a truce with Adalind for the baby's sake. It's the responsible thing, and I think we're meant to understand how hard it is for him, and why. In that context, it's very irritating that, because of tropes, everyone is seeing this leading to a boyfriend/girlfriend relationship... although I wouldn't be averse to seeing it become one, eventually. Key word: eventually. Like, in the distant future, and after a LOT of development.

      Syscrash53 wrote:
      I could see Adalind wanting to be with Nick. If see does get close to Nick I would have positive feelings knowing she is trying to make a better life for herself and her child.  It is NIck that I would lose all respect for.  How ever you look at it Jluiette is dead because of Adalind. Four seasons of Juliette being subjected to all kind of torments because of Adalind actions.  The comment blame Juliette for Kelly dying. People forget it was Adalind that made Kelly a target in the first place.  People blame Nick for taking her child. It was Kelly that keep her safe. If not for Nick, Sean, and Kelly Diana would have been taken by the Royals. There is no story line that could have explained how ADalind could have keep Diana from the Royals. Even the idea of ADalind taking the child and running. ADalind has no ability to live on the run. She has never shown to be self reliant. She has always shown to be a keep women. Even now someone is taking care of her.  

      The only story that will make this bearable is Adalind tries to do right but like an addict the real Adalind kicks in an she agains go back to looking out for herselfr. 

      I agree in part, although I do think you're placing a little TOO much blame on Adalind's shoulders.

      I agree that I'd lose respect for Nick, but I'd lose respect for Nick (and especially for the writing) if he jumped into any relationship right now. He's a fundamentally monogamous person who had loved Juliette for years. He was deeply traumatized by what happened to her. It should take him a long time to even get to the point, emotionally, where he's even ready to move onto a one-night stand, let alone a relationship. If he has any kind of sexual interest in anybody for at least 6 months, I will no longer know who Nick is.

      I can see him eventually getting together with Adalind... if she changes. Drastically. It would make a lot of fans happy, and it'll make a lot of other fans physically ill and turn off their TV's, but maybe not if the writers really spend a lot of time in what Silas Weir Mitchell (referencing Monrosalee) called the "in-between."

      Here's what Adalind is responsible for, and needs to atone for, before serious fans can take the idea of a relationship between her and Nick seriously:

      - Raping Nick and taking away his powers. Yes, it was rape (and for the record, YES, men can be raped! And they are. IRL.) It was rape by fraud. Yes, it was Viktor's idea, and the responsibility ultimately falls on him because he took advantage of Adalind's genuine desperation in order to force her to do what he wanted (Adalind didn't want to do this)... but still, specifically in the context of Nick and Adalind getting together, this is kind of a giant elephant in the room.

      - Raping Hank and almost killing him back in S1. See above. This was actually straightforward rape - no different from drugging him and having her way with him. Yes, she did it because Sean asked her to... sort of... although he didn't indicate that she should go to THAT length... but still... the reason she went along with it basically amounted to, she had a crush on Sean and wanted to impress him. That's not what I would call a "justification."

      - Trying to kill Marie. See previous point regarding her reasons, and why they're not a justification. Although I am more inclined to forgive this, because killing a Grimm is somewhat more acceptible for a Wesen in the world of Grimm, than raping and almost killing an innocent Kehrseite, simply because he's a pawn.

      - Putting Juliette (an innocent party at the time) in a coma and subjecting her and Sean to months of torment that could have killed them, purely out of revenge. PURELY out of revenge. She didn't even have the excuse that someone "made" her do it... it was all her idea. (And, on a different note, I need to say that this was when I had the most respect for her. She plotted rings around Renard. Renard.)

      And here are things that she's not responsible for, or at least not nearly as responsible as others I could name:

      - Everything that happened to Juliette in S4. Although I wouldn't blame Nick for feeling that way. She is indirectly responsible, but really, I ultimately blame Viktor, and... I don't blame Juliette - she made a really good, responsible decision at the time - but it was her choice. But really, the primary blame goes to Viktor.

      - Kelly dying. Ummm... no. Not even close. The blame for that goes to Kenneth first, then to the Verrat, then to Juliette... and then to Sean, and then to Kelly herself. The only way Adalind was responsible was she told Viktor who she thought had kidnapped Diana. Which I can hardly blame her for doing, under the circumstances. Besides, even if nobody put it together that Kelly Burkhardt was alive and had Diana, they still would have found her eventually.

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    • All the stuff with Adalind raping Nick just sucks , i hear this by everywhere, but really this couple is having a lot of fans right now, and i want see them pairing finally, is time that we get a couple as were Buffy & Spike! something spice after such pain and cheesy love for Nick in the past with blande Juliette please...

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    • Adalind has always reminded me of this spoiled girl that gets into situations over her head (except for the time when she plotted revenge against Rennard and Julliette) so having her actually be responsible for this child and try to turn over a new leaf is interesting to see. She delivers some really funny one liners like Wu and Monroe so I want to see her added to the Scooby gang. Her relationship with Nick is the problem. I think they should have loads of development and allow NickXAdalind to be teased a lot without them actually getting together. If they get together now, it will just looked forced because of the child, and will probably end with Adalind dying to save Kelly or Diana. For me, I kinda would like a new person to be introduced for Nick to rebound on but not have a serious relationship with. And Adalind should explore a friendship with the members of the group and prove herself before anything romantic should happen between her and Nick.

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    • SummerLight Sails wrote:

      ... For me, I kinda would like a new person to be introduced for Nick to rebound on but not have a serious relationship with.


      Yes, I agree...and have said the same thing.
      Maybe a sexy female Grimm who comes to town, worldly, European or Asian; someone who has been doing it a lot longer than Nick.

      They run into each other while tracking the same Wesen...Nick makes a rookie move and she says..."Wow, you haven't been doing this very long, have you."
      Heh.
      There is an instant attraction, she jumps him when they are alone together...and Nick doesn't resist because he's so lonely.
      She has to leave town, but they will keep in touch.

      SummerLight Sails also wrote:
      ... And Adalind should explore a friendship with the members of the group and prove herself before anything romantic should happen between her and Nick.


      Yes...Hank would have a hard time seeing Nick & Adalind in a romance.
      So would Renard, I think.

      Realistically, there is a lot in the past that should make it hard for Nick to forget and get past it.
      Personally, I am having a hard time forgetting it.
      Adalind is like a dog who has a history of viciously biting those who get close to her...and I find myself waiting for her to revert back to it.

      I hope the writers don't put Nick and Adalind together as a couple.
      Meisner would be a better match for Adalind, imo.

      There are a lot of beautiful actresses out there that the show could bring in to pair up with Nick.
      I think it should be a character who already knows about the Wesen world though.

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    • I also think Nick metting a female Grimm could be fun. Especially when the Grimm hears his ex became a hexeinbiest and he has a son with a hexenbiest. It reminds me of Buffy and he list of vampire exes. It would also lessen the tension between Nick and Adalind. 

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    • Syscrash53 wrote:
      I also think Nick metting a female Grimm could be fun. Especially when the Grimm hears his ex became a hexeinbiest and he has a son with a hexenbiest. It reminds me of Buffy and he list of vampire exes. It would also lessen the tension between Nick and Adalind. 


      Yeah, it would be fun...and if the female Grimm is a part of some worldwide Grimm network, that would be Nick's way of linking up with them.

      If Meisner brings Diana to Adalind, then he will be a hero in her eyes.
      People talk about a "chemistry between Nick & Adalind" but I don't see it.
      I saw a chemistry between Meisner & Adalind...so I could see them getting together.
      Adalind needs a protector, and Meisner could be that.

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    • Nah Meisner has zero chemistry with Adalind, and you know that. He was a good friend for her, and a good partner for Renard, but his part in the Wesen World is not clear. 

      He is not meant to be with Adalind, and neither was a romantic interest. The fans of Meisner/Adalind just have this hopes for avoid a potential relationship between the true meant to have one romantic that are Nick & Adalind. Nick is the Kelly´s father, and Diana maybe is with Elizabeth, her grandmother who was searching her . Meisner is just a soldier right now. And for Adalind & the writers is more passionate and beautiful put her involved with the father of at last one of his children that with Meisner. Adalind has two children of two men, and she´s gonna to have a steamy romance with Meisner? i don´t think so. Adalind & Nick are who really are meant for have one romance as i saw in 5X02, he almost kissed her. And when Meisner look at her does not happen anything, while with Nick Wooooo.....is INSANE. 

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    • 83.97.252.96 wrote:
      Nah Meisner has zero chemistry with Adalind, and you know that. He was a good friend for her, and a good partner for Renard, but his part in the Wesen World is not clear. 

      He is not meant to be with Adalind, and neither was a romantic interest. The fans of Meisner/Adalind just have this hopes for avoid a potential relationship between the true meant to have one romantic that are Nick & Adalind. Nick is the Kelly´s father, and Diana maybe is with Elizabeth, her grandmother who was searching her . Meisner is just a soldier right now. And for Adalind & the writers is more passionate and beautiful put her involved with the father of at last one of his children that with Meisner. Adalind has two children of two men, and she´s gonna to have a steamy romance with Meisner? i don´t think so. Adalind & Nick are who really are meant for have one romance as i saw in 5X02, he almost kissed her. And when Meisner look at her does not happen anything, while with Nick Wooooo.....is INSANE. 

      I agree that Nick and Adalind have a lot of chemistry, and a romance in the long term wouldn't be amiss (key word: long).

      I wouldn't mind seeing Meisner with Adalind, though, at least in the short term. It will give us time to convince Nick (and us) that Adalind turning a new leaf.

      Now on to the real thing I'm replying to: Nick absolutely did not almost kiss Adalind in "Clear and Wesen Danger !" As I mentioned in the other thread, it has been an estimated THREE DAYS since the events of "Cry Havoc ." Nick will still be at the stage where, every time he closes his eyes, he relives Juliette's death and/or finding his mother's head in a box. I guarantee you, sex - especially sex with somebody who would feel like a betrayal to Juliette's memory - is absolutely the last thing on his mind right now.

      What you saw as sexual tension was really just tension. There has been a lot of tension, and a lot of tentative steps towards civility. That's all that's going on. DG even said, repeatedly, that it's all about the baby.

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    • I agree what we are seeing is tension. He was in no way going to kiss her. yes she is trying to be the person that Nick would not hate, not only for their sones sake but she is tired of the fight. The problem the way things are going she will be way deep into the fight. to suvive she will have to revert back to her old protective self. Even Nick has lost the nice guy, and will get even darker. 

      What cold be interesting is everyone goest dark except Adalind. She is the one that fights to say good, even when she gets her powers back. With her goal to bring Diana back from the dark side. While Nick gets darker and darker, to the point where Adalind starts to worry adout his influience on Kelly. 

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    • I´m agree with the idea of Meisner creating a new dynamic with Adalind again. How she would react when she was gonna to see him? She will claim to him get Diana back? and is true, where will be Elizabeth, Renard´s mother? She´s an hexenbiest too, maybe the writers have something  new prepared for her in Season 5. 

      But i´m not agree in the denial of the  "almost kiss" , is OBVIOUS that Nick Burkhardt was looking Adalind´s lips, because at last he finds her attractive as he said to Hank in the street in the pilot, before she would woge. 

      I do think Nick always will love Juliette, but he´s a man like all the MEN, and when a man, (yeah even the widowed men) see a cute woman, we look her, and Nick is not gonna to be unfaithful to Juliette if he finds his happiness. But well the show is starting, and if you guys, swear that he never will kiss Adalind, i BELIEVE YOU! LOL or maybe not. XXX

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    • 83.97.252.96 wrote:
      But i´m not agree in the denial of the  "almost kiss" , is OBVIOUS that Nick Burkhardt was looking Adalind´s lips, because at last he finds her attractive as he said to Hank in the street in the pilot, before she would woge. 

      I do think Nick always will love Juliette, but he´s a man like all the MEN, and when a man, (yeah even the widowed men) see a cute woman, we look her, and Nick is not gonna to be unfaithful to Juliette if he finds his happiness. But well the show is starting, and if you guys, swear that he never will kiss Adalind, i BELIEVE YOU! LOL or maybe not. XXX

      Three days after the woman he loved for years died violently in his arms? Three days after he came home and found his mother's head in a box? Three days? And with a woman who, like it or not, had a pretty major hand in what happened to Juliette? Three days? The hero we're all supposed to respect? I don't think so. :)

      Like I said, it's kind of hard to be interested in sex when every time you close your eyes, you're still reliving the moment you found your mother's head in a box.

      He wouldn't be unfaithful to Juliette by eventually finding happiness, but "three days" is an awfully long way from, "eventually." And there's a pretty big difference, btw, between, "he did not almost kiss Adalind in this past episode, which took place 3 days after the events of Cry Havoc" (which is what I actually said), and, "he will never kiss Adalind" (which is what you say I said).

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    • Yeah, just 3 days...oh i really don´t know how Nick did not cut his veins or how he can still living, without Juliette, YEAH THE WOMAN WHO KILLED HIS MOTHER, a mother who trusted in her as his son´s fiancee like she´d be another child of her. Kelly Burkhardt. But of course, Nick should to be dead, already instead taking care of his son....oh my God! 

      Now seriously, neither being dead, i think that Nick has forgiven to Juliette for kill his mother, and this fact turns him much more bitter yet. He miss her absolutelly, but what she did...but of course, let me guess; All is Adalind´s fault. haha. XD always the same song. 

      Well i don´t care. i love Adanick interaction this season 5, and the rest of new things too of course. I miss more scenes with Bud. 

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    • if nick was good to Juliette half as he is to Adalind, both Juliette and his mother would have been  alive.

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    • I agree, It just doesn't make since why hexenbiest Adalind is ok but hexenbiest Juliette was repulsive. 

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    • So... Lost Boys just aired. And in terms of Nick and Adalind's relationship, this was just weird.

      I mentioned before that I'm actually coming around to the idea of shipping Nick and Adalind, but it's got to be done carefully, guys! Totally outside of the moral standpoint... just from a character continuity standpoint, the emotions at work should make any romance between Nick and Adalind a long, difficult development.

      Nick and Adalind were far too comfortable and chatty in this episode. Far, far too comfortable, far far too soon.

      And the scene at the end... at least they showed Nick being sleepless, staring at the ceiling. That was good. That paid attention to character continuity. Which is good, because I like this show, and the minute the writers think that something as basic and vital as "character continuity" is something that can be discarded at will, is the moment any show goes irreparably downhill.

      But seriously... Nick, Adalind just said that she didn't want to be in the room alone. Fine. Then take the mattress and bedding with you into her room, and sleep on the floor! Who cares if it's awkward? She deserves a little awkwardness. (and from a story standpoint, good redemption stories start with awkwardness and guilt.) And you'd be a heck of a lot more comfortable there, then lying right next to somebody who your instincts must be screaming at you not to trust. Because a) you're a Grimm, you therefore have Grimm instincts, and she's at least sort-of a Hexenbiest, and b) given what she did to you last year (and never mind the reasons... they're irrelevant to Nick's feelings), even your human defensive instincts must be in overdrive, screaming, "She's going to jump you! Run!"

      Again, though... I do like that they showed Nick staring wide-eyed at the ceiling, long after Adalind had gone back to sleep. That makes sense. But still... Nick decorated the place; he should have known that there was just the one bed in there, and so, given that he agreed to sleep in the room in the first place... I'm still trying to figure out how Nick's first instinctive reaction, once he decided to give in to Adalind's request, wasn't, "ok... I'll need to find a place to sleep. The floor would be better than the bed... Adalind is in the bed. I'll need some sort of cushion and bedding, though. If I drag the entire bed in, that'll probably wake Kelly. But just taking the mattress in probably wouldn't; it's pretty light."

      Again, that's not a moral thing. This is about character continuity. One of the main building blocks of good storytelling.

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    • I agree about that 'Why didn't he take a blanket and a pillow and slept on the flor'-thought. But his staring at the ceiling... I bet he never fell asleep that night.

      He is not trusting Adalind, he is probably not even really liking her. He's just trying to survive day-to-day for his sons sake (David told us so). And if that implies to placade his sons mother he's just doing it... so no ulterior motives on that end. At least for now. He's just beeing pragmatic.

      Nick never shows or talks about how he really feels, he's a man of action. So it's not that easy to know what's truly going on in his mind. But just watch him closely, no smile ever reaches his eyes. He stares at his son in wonder, maybe protective, but he is not beaming like a proud father would. He is NOT happy about the situation. How could he? He lost everything he cared about and now all he can do is to take care of Baby Kelly.

      And probably he is acting so nonchalant because if he'd allow his true feelings to come through, he would break down and never get up again... remember his 'I can't do this...'-scene in the bathroom? He's pulling himself together for everyones sake, so don't be too harsh on him.

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    • Is a lie and a clumpsy idea think that Nick does not care about Adalind, and that he´s just supporting that situation by his son. 

      Is obvious that the writers are sending a future ship for Nick and Adalind, even a blind could see it. their approaching is not cold at all, they´re very often embarrased by the bizarre situation, but is a lie say that Nick does not trust in her, he does, he gave her the Juliette´s car, his new house´s keys, advices, how he remember her as the first Wesen. if he does not care her , neither would mention this. 

      Nick and Adalind´s relationship as this thread demands answer, yeah, is changing and in a romantic way i´d  say, but this will take a lot of time. Take care Baby Kelly is what they have in common. Nick was with his open eyes because he was uncomfortable in the bed, is obvious that he´s attracted to Adalind, if not he did not remember her as the first Wesen neither. 

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    • "you were my first" - Nick :)

      "I guess you were my first as well." - Adalind :D

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    • The Grimmsters always get the point lol 

      Nick remembered his first meeting with her, because he felt SOMETHIG. 

      does not matter what, THE BOND is there. 

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    • I predict ADalind will work for her old company as a lawyer. The reason why they wanted her so bad. They know she is a hexenbiest. remeber there where two other hexenbiest working for the company. The company is on the side of the uprising. We will see other companies and positions of power that have a connection to the uprising. Wessen have been working their wway into positions of power for a while.  

      Adlind will find once with the company again they are assuming she is still a hexenbiest.  That being a requirement ADalind will work at getting her powers back.  She will then realize that she is working with the uprisising, which she will find a needed plus, since wessen existence will be threatened by the SGO. 

      This will put Adalind and Nick on opposite sides of the fight. This will also have Rosalee and Monroe not sure where they sit in the fight. They are for the uprisiing's desire to perserve wessen and no longer to have them need to hide. But they are opbjecting to the uprising violent methods. 

      From the way the season is setting up. There  will be no good and no bad. The viewers will see the uprising fighting for the rights of wesen, it is their methods that the SGO will have a problem with.  Because of this the SGO will try and remove any wessen that they feel would be working with the uprising. 

      Nick will want to help the uprising wessen that want to live in the open, but will be against the ones willing to use violence. Nick will also want the SGO help to control the violent wessen but will object to the SGO solution of a purge of Wessen. 

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    • I believe Nick and Trubel are going to end up discovering they are SIBLINGS..

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    • (FYI, I posted this on tv.com, but it's exactly what I wanted to post here as well. If you happened to have read the comment on tv.com, it's totally unchanged here):

      Ok, so I have a bit of a confession: I am a closet Nick/Adalind shipper. But what I am not, is a rabid shipper. I want them together... but only if it makes sense from a character-continuity perspective, doesn't violate Nick's integrity, and doesn't try to completely overwrite the past or excuse Adalind's past actions solely on the basis that she was a Hexenbiest (because, for starters, she wasn't a Hexenbiest during her most villainous acts).

      I really, really, really like the look on Adalind's face when Nick hugs her. I've been bothered for some time about them acting out of character, but that look makes everything better. That look means that there's a reason they're acting out of character. A reason beyond, "Facebook fans are calling for them to get together and the writers are trying to fulfill their wish," that is. An in-universe reason.

      That look very clearly says, "Oh, god. What did I do? What should I do? What's going on here?" Which makes sense, when you consider that she is entirely dependent on Nick right now, and whatever is going on with him... from her perspective, it could end very badly if she makes a wrong move.

      Now that there's some indication that something purposely strange-ish is going on with Nick, here are some theories. They could be any, or even all, of them, going on at once (it's more likely to be more than one factor than just one):

      - Grief. Plain and simple. At the risk of stating the glaringly obvious, grief is painful. Grief wreaks havoc with the emotions. And sometimes confuses them.

      - Adalind has, like it or not, actually been there for him lately, and in a way, it might actually have been helping that she wasn't his friend all along, like everybody else that has been there for him. Less to lose by confiding in her, in a bizarre way. Less like a friend, more like a therapist. And actual therapists have to be careful that their patients don't develop emotional attachments.

      - Lust. This is what most rabid shippers would put at the top of their list... the only reason I'm not putting it at the bottom of mine is that I want to end with something else. It is there. Adalind has been using every trick in the book to call on it (although she clearly didn't expect it to start working THIS soon). Nick has a lot more integrity than to act on it, if that were all that was going on, though. To be very blunt, except for the Musai in S2, Nick has never been somebody who can be solely led around by his dick.

      And here's a new theory... one that just blossomed late last night right as I was going to bed...

      What if Kelly's doing something?

      I don't mean something diabolical - I can believe in spider powers, wizards, elves, and any number of future worlds as long as they don't contradict themselves and the characters act like people... but give me a newborn baby that schemes, understands why to scheme, and understands the world well enough to hatch schemes, and that breaks it for me. But I can think of no less than 3 totally innocent ways that Kelly could be influencing Nick's emotions, just by being an innocent newborn half-Zauberbiest.

      I've been thinking for a while that Zauberbiests may be empathic, and one idea I've played with is the idea that one of the first signs of manifestation in a Zauberbiest (who are confirmed to be very different from Hexenbiests) is that they form an empathic link with their fathers.

      Kelly was born on the worst day of Nick's life. During the birth scene, the camera focused on Adalind grabbing Nick apparently on the stomach, and then immediately the baby went into distress. I know the official reason was that his arm was over his head, but... what if he also sensed Nick's distress and that put him in distress?

      If Kelly and Nick have an empathic link, I'm thinking Kelly could be unconsciously influencing his father's feelings in any of the following ways:

      1) Kelly could simply be broadcasting his own feelings about Adalind to Nick, and Nick's subconscious is (hopefully) translating the feelings into more adult terms (I say, "hopefully," because I don't think anybody - shipper or non - wants Nick to feel about Adalind the way an infant feels about his mother).

      2) Kelly could be taking the pain of grief away. After several months of this, given that Adalind and Kelly are always together, Nick's subconscious could be putting it together that he feels better when Adalind is around (and not the more accurate version: he feels better when Kelly's around).

      3) Kelly could, in a very naive way, be trying to get his parents together. This speaks to a little more deliberation, but it could still be instinctive... the need all children feel for a stable home life where everybody loves each other is... well, it could be something we're all born with, rather than something we learn.

      So... yeah, now that the writers are showing, with that one look on Adalind's face (and kudos to Claire Coffee), that they're not just trying to push a totally nonsensical ship onto us whether it makes any in-universe sense or not, I can actually see some sense in it.

      On a semi-related note: I do love that they're keeping Kelly an innocent newborn, and I love the added screen time where we can actually see some father/son bonding. In the case of some of it, Adalind isn't even in the room, distracting us with the hammer of, "you must like Adalind NOW." Hoping we see more of that.

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    • Katerine459 wrote: (FYI, I posted this on tv.com, but it's exactly what I wanted to post here as well. If you happened to have read the comment on tv.com, it's totally unchanged here):

      Ok, so I have a bit of a confession: I am a closet Nick/Adalind shipper. But what I am not, is a rabid shipper. I want them together... but only if it makes sense from a character-continuity perspective, doesn't violate Nick's integrity, and doesn't try to completely overwrite the past or excuse Adalind's past actions solely on the basis that she was a Hexenbiest (because, for starters, she wasn't a Hexenbiest during her most villainous acts).

      I really, really, really like the look on Adalind's face when Nick hugs her. I've been bothered for some time about them acting out of character, but that look makes everything better. That look means that there's a reason they're acting out of character. A reason beyond, "Facebook fans are calling for them to get together and the writers are trying to fulfill their wish," that is. An in-universe reason.

      That look very clearly says, "Oh, god. What did I do? What should I do? What's going on here?" Which makes sense, when you consider that she is entirely dependent on Nick right now, and whatever is going on with him... from her perspective, it could end very badly if she makes a wrong move.

      Now that there's some indication that something purposely strange-ish is going on with Nick, here are some theories. They could be any, or even all, of them, going on at once (it's more likely to be more than one factor than just one):

      - Grief. Plain and simple. At the risk of stating the glaringly obvious, grief is painful. Grief wreaks havoc with the emotions. And sometimes confuses them.

      - Adalind has, like it or not, actually been there for him lately, and in a way, it might actually have been helping that she wasn't his friend all along, like everybody else that has been there for him. Less to lose by confiding in her, in a bizarre way. Less like a friend, more like a therapist. And actual therapists have to be careful that their patients don't develop emotional attachments.

      - Lust. This is what most rabid shippers would put at the top of their list... the only reason I'm not putting it at the bottom of mine is that I want to end with something else. It is there. Adalind has been using every trick in the book to call on it (although she clearly didn't expect it to start working THIS soon). Nick has a lot more integrity than to act on it, if that were all that was going on, though. To be very blunt, except for the Musai in S2, Nick has never been somebody who can be solely led around by his dick.

      And here's a new theory... one that just blossomed late last night right as I was going to bed...

      What if Kelly's doing something?

      I don't mean something diabolical - I can believe in spider powers, wizards, elves, and any number of future worlds as long as they don't contradict themselves and the characters act like people... but give me a newborn baby that schemes, understands why to scheme, and understands the world well enough to hatch schemes, and that breaks it for me. But I can think of no less than 3 totally innocent ways that Kelly could be influencing Nick's emotions, just by being an innocent newborn half-Zauberbiest.

      I've been thinking for a while that Zauberbiests may be empathic, and one idea I've played with is the idea that one of the first signs of manifestation in a Zauberbiest (who are confirmed to be very different from Hexenbiests) is that they form an empathic link with their fathers.

      Kelly was born on the worst day of Nick's life. During the birth scene, the camera focused on Adalind grabbing Nick apparently on the stomach, and then immediately the baby went into distress. I know the official reason was that his arm was over his head, but... what if he also sensed Nick's distress and that put him in distress?

      If Kelly and Nick have an empathic link, I'm thinking Kelly could be unconsciously influencing his father's feelings in any of the following ways:

      1) Kelly could simply be broadcasting his own feelings about Adalind to Nick, and Nick's subconscious is (hopefully) translating the feelings into more adult terms (I say, "hopefully," because I don't think anybody - shipper or non - wants Nick to feel about Adalind the way an infant feels about his mother).

      2) Kelly could be taking the pain of grief away. After several months of this, given that Adalind and Kelly are always together, Nick's subconscious could be putting it together that he feels better when Adalind is around (and not the more accurate version: he feels better when Kelly's around).

      3) Kelly could, in a very naive way, be trying to get his parents together. This speaks to a little more deliberation, but it could still be instinctive... the need all children feel for a stable home life where everybody loves each other is... well, it could be something we're all born with, rather than something we learn.

      So... yeah, now that the writers are showing, with that one look on Adalind's face (and kudos to Claire Coffee), that they're not just trying to push a totally nonsensical ship onto us whether it makes any in-universe sense or not, I can actually see some sense in it.

      On a semi-related note: I do love that they're keeping Kelly an innocent newborn, and I love the added screen time where we can actually see some father/son bonding. In the case of some of it, Adalind isn't even in the room, distracting us with the hammer of, "you must like Adalind NOW." Hoping we see more of that.

      That....suprisingly sounds......ACCURATE. I wonder if though that if KSB is in a way influencing his dads behavior, almost as if he's part of his sub-concious while he's with his mama. Maybe Hexenbiests share a link with their mothers, but vice versa with Zauberbiests. Yeah, it's sweet to keep KSB in a innocent way, but I just hope nobody kidnaps him or anything, or Nick's gonna blow up the world looking for him rather than just staying in Portland as he solves crimes, or he'll look like a terrible papa. Judging from what you typed that Zauberbiests share a link with their dads, I feel in a way KSB doesn't link his mother, I don't know, I just believe that because he has a bond with his father, he looks up to him more. Still, I know Adalind and Nick are together, but I feel in my heart it won't last, especially since the suppressant is wearing off, and she could die trying to remove her Wesen spirit.

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    • Wondering if Nick and Adalind do the deed will she take  his Grimm away again.

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    • 99.59.124.62 wrote: Wondering if Nick and Adalind do the deed will she take  his Grimm away again.

      Possibly not.

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    • Scout Trooper 164 wrote:

      99.59.124.62 wrote: Wondering if Nick and Adalind do the deed will she take  his Grimm away again.

      Possibly not.

      I agree with Scout Trooper, Adalind already has Nick's blood in her. Like Juliette already had Nick's blood in her. So unless the suppressant has something to do with it, (which is possible, since not much is known about this shady suppressant at all) I think doing "the deed" would be pretty harmless for them both.

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    • Katerine459 wrote: (FYI, I posted this on tv.com, but it's exactly what I wanted to post here as well. If you happened to have read the comment on tv.com, it's totally unchanged here):

      Ok, so I have a bit of a confession: I am a closet Nick/Adalind shipper. But what I am not, is a rabid shipper. I want them together... but only if it makes sense from a character-continuity perspective, doesn't violate Nick's integrity, and doesn't try to completely overwrite the past or excuse Adalind's past actions solely on the basis that she was a Hexenbiest (because, for starters, she wasn't a Hexenbiest during her most villainous acts).

      I really, really, really like the look on Adalind's face when Nick hugs her. I've been bothered for some time about them acting out of character, but that look makes everything better. That look means that there's a reason they're acting out of character. A reason beyond, "Facebook fans are calling for them to get together and the writers are trying to fulfill their wish," that is. An in-universe reason.

      That look very clearly says, "Oh, god. What did I do? What should I do? What's going on here?" Which makes sense, when you consider that she is entirely dependent on Nick right now, and whatever is going on with him... from her perspective, it could end very badly if she makes a wrong move.

      Now that there's some indication that something purposely strange-ish is going on with Nick, here are some theories. They could be any, or even all, of them, going on at once (it's more likely to be more than one factor than just one):

      - Grief. Plain and simple. At the risk of stating the glaringly obvious, grief is painful. Grief wreaks havoc with the emotions. And sometimes confuses them.

      - Adalind has, like it or not, actually been there for him lately, and in a way, it might actually have been helping that she wasn't his friend all along, like everybody else that has been there for him. Less to lose by confiding in her, in a bizarre way. Less like a friend, more like a therapist. And actual therapists have to be careful that their patients don't develop emotional attachments.

      - Lust. This is what most rabid shippers would put at the top of their list... the only reason I'm not putting it at the bottom of mine is that I want to end with something else. It is there. Adalind has been using every trick in the book to call on it (although she clearly didn't expect it to start working THIS soon). Nick has a lot more integrity than to act on it, if that were all that was going on, though. To be very blunt, except for the Musai in S2, Nick has never been somebody who can be solely led around by his dick.

      And here's a new theory... one that just blossomed late last night right as I was going to bed...

      What if Kelly's doing something?

      I don't mean something diabolical - I can believe in spider powers, wizards, elves, and any number of future worlds as long as they don't contradict themselves and the characters act like people... but give me a newborn baby that schemes, understands why to scheme, and understands the world well enough to hatch schemes, and that breaks it for me. But I can think of no less than 3 totally innocent ways that Kelly could be influencing Nick's emotions, just by being an innocent newborn half-Zauberbiest.

      I've been thinking for a while that Zauberbiests may be empathic, and one idea I've played with is the idea that one of the first signs of manifestation in a Zauberbiest (who are confirmed to be very different from Hexenbiests) is that they form an empathic link with their fathers.

      Kelly was born on the worst day of Nick's life. During the birth scene, the camera focused on Adalind grabbing Nick apparently on the stomach, and then immediately the baby went into distress. I know the official reason was that his arm was over his head, but... what if he also sensed Nick's distress and that put him in distress?

      If Kelly and Nick have an empathic link, I'm thinking Kelly could be unconsciously influencing his father's feelings in any of the following ways:

      1) Kelly could simply be broadcasting his own feelings about Adalind to Nick, and Nick's subconscious is (hopefully) translating the feelings into more adult terms (I say, "hopefully," because I don't think anybody - shipper or non - wants Nick to feel about Adalind the way an infant feels about his mother).

      2) Kelly could be taking the pain of grief away. After several months of this, given that Adalind and Kelly are always together, Nick's subconscious could be putting it together that he feels better when Adalind is around (and not the more accurate version: he feels better when Kelly's around).

      3) Kelly could, in a very naive way, be trying to get his parents together. This speaks to a little more deliberation, but it could still be instinctive... the need all children feel for a stable home life where everybody loves each other is... well, it could be something we're all born with, rather than something we learn.

      So... yeah, now that the writers are showing, with that one look on Adalind's face (and kudos to Claire Coffee), that they're not just trying to push a totally nonsensical ship onto us whether it makes any in-universe sense or not, I can actually see some sense in it.

      On a semi-related note: I do love that they're keeping Kelly an innocent newborn, and I love the added screen time where we can actually see some father/son bonding. In the case of some of it, Adalind isn't even in the room, distracting us with the hammer of, "you must like Adalind NOW." Hoping we see more of that.

      Also, that is a long ass theory... but it actually makes sense! Well, most of it, to me anyway. I like the idea of an empathetic bond but I don't see how that makes sense with any other Zauberbiest, even though Sean is our only Zauberbiest (and yes, half Zauberbiest) he still seems to care very little for his father. This could be influenced with The King's terrible treatment of him, but still. I don't think the empathetic bond thing makes much sense, but I do like it in a way.

      I am also really glad, like you, that they didn't make up some crummy crap to make Adalind and Nick suddenly fall head over heels for eachother because of a bunch of love-driven fans. I like how they're keeping in character. Though I was a firm hater of the Nick & Adalind idea (Can you blame me? I love Juliette)... I'm warming up to it now. Atleast a little bit.

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    • Blutbau Fuchsbad wrote:
      Also, that is a long ass theory... but it actually makes sense! Well, most of it, to me anyway. I like the idea of an empathetic bond but I don't see how that makes sense with any other Zauberbiest, even though Sean is our only Zauberbiest (and yes, half Zauberbiest) he still seems to care very little for his father. This could be influenced with The King's terrible treatment of him, but still. I don't think the empathetic bond thing makes much sense, but I do like it in a way.

      I am also really glad, like you, that they didn't make up some crummy crap to make Adalind and Nick suddenly fall head over heels for eachother because of a bunch of love-driven fans. I like how they're keeping in character. Though I was a firm hater of the Nick & Adalind idea (Can you blame me? I love Juliette)... I'm warming up to it now. Atleast a little bit.

      Regarding Sean: My theory is that, assuming he got the genetic empathy thing in the first place (which he may very well have... he certainly seems to be very good at understanding people, understanding what makes them tick, manipulating them, calming them down, whatever he's aiming to do)... my theory is that he would have developed the bond with his father in infancy, like all Zauberbiests, but then when he was older and could make decisions, and he and his mother went into hiding, he purposely (and probably painfully) broke it off.

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    • Katerine459 wrote:

      Blutbau Fuchsbad wrote:
      Also, that is a long ass theory... but it actually makes sense! Well, most of it, to me anyway. I like the idea of an empathetic bond but I don't see how that makes sense with any other Zauberbiest, even though Sean is our only Zauberbiest (and yes, half Zauberbiest) he still seems to care very little for his father. This could be influenced with The King's terrible treatment of him, but still. I don't think the empathetic bond thing makes much sense, but I do like it in a way.

      I am also really glad, like you, that they didn't make up some crummy crap to make Adalind and Nick suddenly fall head over heels for eachother because of a bunch of love-driven fans. I like how they're keeping in character. Though I was a firm hater of the Nick & Adalind idea (Can you blame me? I love Juliette)... I'm warming up to it now. Atleast a little bit.

      Regarding Sean: My theory is that, assuming he got the genetic empathy thing in the first place (which he may very well have... he certainly seems to be very good at understanding people, understanding what makes them tick, manipulating them, calming them down, whatever he's aiming to do)... my theory is that he would have developed the bond with his father in infancy, like all Zauberbiests, but then when he was older and could make decisions, and he and his mother went into hiding, he purposely (and probably painfully) broke it off.

      Sounds cool, if you ever get any other evidence to support the theory let me know. I'm interested. It's possible.

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    • 99.59.124.62 wrote:
      Wondering if Nick and Adalind do the deed will she take  his Grimm away again.

      Doing the deed did not take Nick's Grimm away. The extremely convoluted spell that Adalind performed, which required doing the  deed as one of its components, took Nick's Grimm away. There's a very big difference.

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    • Blutbau Fuchsbad wrote:

      Katerine459 wrote:

      Blutbau Fuchsbad wrote:
      Also, that is a long ass theory... but it actually makes sense! Well, most of it, to me anyway. I like the idea of an empathetic bond but I don't see how that makes sense with any other Zauberbiest, even though Sean is our only Zauberbiest (and yes, half Zauberbiest) he still seems to care very little for his father. This could be influenced with The King's terrible treatment of him, but still. I don't think the empathetic bond thing makes much sense, but I do like it in a way.

      I am also really glad, like you, that they didn't make up some crummy crap to make Adalind and Nick suddenly fall head over heels for eachother because of a bunch of love-driven fans. I like how they're keeping in character. Though I was a firm hater of the Nick & Adalind idea (Can you blame me? I love Juliette)... I'm warming up to it now. Atleast a little bit.

      Regarding Sean: My theory is that, assuming he got the genetic empathy thing in the first place (which he may very well have... he certainly seems to be very good at understanding people, understanding what makes them tick, manipulating them, calming them down, whatever he's aiming to do)... my theory is that he would have developed the bond with his father in infancy, like all Zauberbiests, but then when he was older and could make decisions, and he and his mother went into hiding, he purposely (and probably painfully) broke it off.

      Sounds cool, if you ever get any other evidence to support the theory let me know. I'm interested. It's possible.

      Here's something I forgot earlier. :) Remember that totally-forgotten plot point from those months when Nick was powerless and Adalind had yet to find out she was pregnant... but presumably she was pregnant, that entire time... and Nick and Adalind got those simultaneous headaches and at one point switched bodies? That could be indicative of a psychic bond, not between Nick and Adalind, but between Nick and the baby Adalind was carrying. :)

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    • Katerine459 wrote:
      Here's something I forgot earlier. :) Remember that totally-forgotten plot point from those months when Nick was powerless and Adalind had yet to find out she was pregnant... but presumably she was pregnant, that entire time... and Nick and Adalind got those simultaneous headaches and at one point switched bodies? That could be indicative of a psychic bond, not between Nick and Adalind, but between Nick and the baby Adalind was carrying. :)

      I always wondered if/when they will get back to that plot...

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    • Bheadr27 wrote:

      Katerine459 wrote:
      Here's something I forgot earlier. :) Remember that totally-forgotten plot point from those months when Nick was powerless and Adalind had yet to find out she was pregnant... but presumably she was pregnant, that entire time... and Nick and Adalind got those simultaneous headaches and at one point switched bodies? That could be indicative of a psychic bond, not between Nick and Adalind, but between Nick and the baby Adalind was carrying. :)

      I always wondered if/when they will get back to that plot...

      I don't see how it could be a bond between him and Kelly if Adalind was the one with the headache. I mean, wouldn't that just have affected the baby? The baby had to have had a brain at that point, and even if it didn't, I don't see what that has to do with Adalind's brain. I just assumed that was a short term side affect and it reduced over time. Speaking of dropped plot points, 4 episodes and still no mention of those damn keys!

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    • Blutbau Fuchsbad wrote:
      ...Speaking of dropped plot points, 4 episodes and still no mention of those damn keys!

      You're really miffed about that point, ey Blutbau? ;-))  Don't be afraid, since they are shooting in Germany they're one way or the other this season on the hunt for the keys/treasure.

      I don't see a bond between Nick and his son on this level. Too much 'Twilight' for my taste... But it still intrigues me, if we're gonna see Nick and Adalind talk about that incident. Adalind probably understood, that she was looking through Nicks eyes (seeing Juliette and Wu and the inside of Nicks house), but he wouldn't know he used Adalinds...

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    • Bheadr27 wrote:
      I don't see a bond between Nick and his son on this level. Too much 'Twilight' for my taste... But it still intrigues me, if we're gonna see Nick and Adalind talk about that incident. Adalind probably understood, that she was looking through Nicks eyes (seeing Juliette and Wu and the inside of Nicks house), but he wouldn't know he used Adalinds...

      For the record, what I'm thinking might be going on between Nick and Kelly is nothing like how Renesmee was written. They're alike in the sense that they're born with psychic powers, and that's it. In and of itself, this is not problematic. I'm envisioning Nick and Kelly being different from Renesmee in the following ways:

      1) Renesmee develops psychic connections to everybody she touches, because that is her extra-special superpower that is so amazing and unique. Whereas, in my imagined case of Kelly unconsciously forming a psychic connection with his father while in the womb, this is because that's what all baby Zauberbiests do. I think psychic and empathic abilities distinguish Zauberbiests, just like telekinesis and magic distinguish Hexenbiests.

      2) As I mentioned earlier, Renesmee was never problematic simply because she had this superpower. She was problematic because she grew up at an insane rate (thereby keeping Edward and Bella from the inconvenience of actually having to take care of a baby), magically understood right from wrong without ever having to be taught, magically understood everything without ever having to be taught, never cried, never had a dirty diaper, never inconvenienced Edward and Bella in any real way. This is because she was born a good child. As opposed to an evil child... described in these books for pre-teens as... well, the description of "evil" children sounds exactly like a normal RL child. But if you give birth to a good child or an evil child - this has nothing whatsoever to do with your ability (or willingness) to do the hard work of parenting. No, whether you give birth to a good child or an evil child depends entirely on whether they're born that way. And good children never give their parents any trouble at all, and will always be perfect dolls who will love you forever but never actually need you for anything, because above all, good children never require any real effort on the part of the parents. (And this was the image of parenthood that was presented to preteen girls.)

      Renesmee's superpower does tie into this problem, because it's basically the conceit that gets her out of ever needing to be, you know, parented.

      Contrast with an empathic link between Nick and Kelly - it's not something that teaches Kelly anything that it should be Nick and Adalind's job to teach him. It's not something that makes it so Kelly doesn't need his parents. It doesn't even do the job of toilet training him. Quite the opposite, actually - it's probably just something that evolved in Zauberbiests as an alarm system... a way to remotely cry for help and bring their fathers running. It doesn't negate his need for good parenting - quite the opposite, actually. Logically, it actually makes him more susceptible in many ways, particularly to things that hurt Nick.

      3) Because Renesmee was born such a good child, she was able to wrap everybody else (including the bad guys) around her little finger. By manipulating their emotions. On purpose. And very cunningly. But also "innocently." Because she's so good.

      Kelly, OTOH, is not doing anything on purpose at all. He's just feeling what he feels, and those feelings are getting broadcasted across a link that's already there (because, being an infant, he doesn't understand the concept of control, let alone have any), or perhaps taking bad feelings away that make Kelly feel bad (with the side effect of Nick's feelings about Adalind getting confused). Less like Renesmee, more like a very young Jean Grey (if mutants were born with their powers instead of it coming during puberty).

      HTH. :) Sorry about the rant; Renesmee is kind of a sore subject for me, because I can totally see young women getting pregnant with a vague notion in the backs of their minds, of what babies, children in general, and especially parenthood, are "supposed" to be like, and child abuse resulting. Having fantasy stories with psychic babies is not the problem. Having fantasy stories with psychic babies who therefore need no real parenting, is the problem.

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    • The relationship of Nick & Adalind is changed since 4X20, when she tried help to Juliette. 

      And protect her unborn baby of her, yeah. 

      Nick now trust in her more, seasons before, she was only his enemie. 

      But since season 5 started seems that Adalind is getting fall in love to Nick , without realizing. She is just like she´s. She´s cute, she has a personal attractive that even Victor said when she was prisioner in the Royals prisions. 

      If the rest of men see that, maybe Nick is able of see it. And like Adalind liked to a lot of men, Nick is not an exception. He´s the Grimm, but he´s a man too. 

      I think he´s feeling something by her, i would say he´s falling in love, and neither want she go to work. I´m watching Nick happy or at last in calm, with Kelly and Adalind since a long time he did not look like that. 

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    • Adalind is Kelly's mother and that is why he is protecting her. Romance is a long ways off.  For one, supressed or not she is still a hexenbiest. He in no way trust but she is disadvantaged so he has no need to worry. Let her start going out and meeting people his attitude will change. 

      You forget who Adalind is and how she knows to survive. Adalind is being seductive because that is who she is. At the core she is a con artist and that is all she knows how to be. She is trying to play it  straight but she will never truly trust anyone. Right now she needs Nick and needs him to not give her a hard time.

      You notice when some one does something nice she has no idea how to accept it. Like when she saw all the work Monroee and Rosale  did on the house, she was awkward saying thanks.  Even when Nick told her to go buy clothes, see did not want to owe Nick anything.  A guy offering something with no strings attached is foriegn to her. 

      In four seasons you have never seen anyone say a kind word to her of do something for her just because. You also have to remember Nick knows she is a good actor. She was able to act just like Juliette. The potent only changed the looks, she had to pull off the personallity. It will be a while before NIck is not wondering if Adalind is up to something. I find it funny everyone is worried if Nick is going to be there for Kelly, my question is will Adalind stick around with Kelly if a better offer comes along.  Take meisner would she switch from Nick to Miesner.

      But the big problem Adalind can only stay good if she is no longer dealing with the forces that drove her .  That will be hard since Nick bieng a Grimm everyday is dealing with the exact same forces that drove ADalind to being decietful. It is like an alcoholic living in a bar. 

      Lets start with the danger. Staying with Nick see better get her powers back. If not she will find herself a hostage by those looking forf Nick.  

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    • Syscrash53 wrote: Adalind is Kelly's mother and that is why he is protecting her. Romance is a long ways off.  For one, supressed or not she is still a hexenbiest. He in no way trust but she is disadvantaged so he has no need to worry. Let her start going out and meeting people his attitude will change. 

      You forget who Adalind is and how she knows to survive. Adalind is being seductive because that is who she is. At the core she is a con artist and that is all she knows how to be. She is trying to play it  straight but she will never truly trust anyone. Right now she needs Nick and needs him to not give her a hard time.

      You notice when some one does something nice she has no idea how to accept it. Like when she saw all the work Monroee and Rosale  did on the house, she was awkward saying thanks.  Even when Nick told her to go buy clothes, see did not want to owe Nick anything.  A guy offering something with no strings attached is foriegn to her. 

      In four seasons you have never seen anyone say a kind word to her of do something for her just because. You also have to remember Nick knows she is a good actor. She was able to act just like Juliette. The potent only changed the looks, she had to pull off the personallity. It will be a while before NIck is not wondering if Adalind is up to something. I find it funny everyone is worried if Nick is going to be there for Kelly, my question is will Adalind stick around with Kelly if a better offer comes along.  Take meisner would she switch from Nick to Miesner.

      But the big problem Adalind can only stay good if she is no longer dealing with the forces that drove her .  That will be hard since Nick bieng a Grimm everyday is dealing with the exact same forces that drove ADalind to being decietful. It is like an alcoholic living in a bar. 

      Lets start with the danger. Staying with Nick see better get her powers back. If not she will find herself a hostage by those looking forf Nick.  

      While I remember she has a history of being seductive for manipulative purposes, I don't think that's the case right now. I am not one of the fans who mop up every Nick & Adalind scene and yell "OTP!"... I don't really support it and I liked Juliette better to be honest. But their relationship is definitely changing. For every terrible thing Adalind's done, she had a pretty rough start in the world. Losing her father at 4 years old I assume she didn't have any male role model. I don't think she's used to guys doing nice things for her while expecting nothing in return. As you said, it's a new road for her. So yeah, I think she's definitely starting to grow an attraction towards Nick... subtle though it may be.

      Nick, on the other hand, is grieving the loss of his girlfriend and his mother. He's a long road from romance. I think he just wants comfort. I don't think he's attracted to Adalind much, but rather kind of confused and conflicted.

      Nick isn't just the guy to lose his bride-to-be and just say "To hell with it, moving on!"

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    • oh well Nick´s starting to fall by Adalind. 

      Evan  a blind could  see that. 

      But will be a gradual proncess where will happen a lot of things before they continue by the romantic route. Maybe she will win his independence when she gets a job with Kelly. 

      But the Nick´s attraction by her is not new, is the consequence of 6 years as the timeline of this series of deal with it by their mutual hate. 

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    • Although I like the concept of Adalind and Nick, I have to think realistically - Juliette just died, I think all of us can agree that even though she became a cold hearted hexenbiest, Nick and Juliette have years of history. I never really liked Juliette that much, especially to the end, but Nick won't be able to let her go in a blink of an eye. He needs time. 

      I do think the writers are trying to stir up some feelings, I think they are more feelings of getting to know each other & to respecting each other now.  And that's fine by me. To be honest, I think that they shouldn't be concentrating too much on the romance side. Right now, they need to do what's best for their baby, you know, "kids first". 

      Maybe someday in the future Nick and Adalind have a shot at love. And I know Adalind has done some terrible things, but I think she realizes that. But when you look at her mother, SHE was the only role model Adalind had.

      I think Adalind will have to make a big gesture, so that everyone can somehow look past her past. And Nick will need time to grieve and finally to move on. Either way, both things will take time, and the romance department has never been easy for the characters on Grimm. 

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    • Yes, Grimmster, all those things are really great and i´m ok with them, but the big problem is the time. We don´t know neither if this show will get a new renovation. i hope so with all my heart, since "Grimm" is my main show right now, but if the Writers are gonna to make hook up to Nick and Adalind, they can not wait another 4 years of Nick mourning Juliette. 

      in fact, sure that Nick is not having an internal fight against his true feelings by Juliette right now? Maybe Nick never will forgive to Juliette what she has done with his mother, kill her off. so, i don´t know how long Nick will mourn to his beloved girlfriend killer. 

      I think that for now is best let the show go. The feelings won´t came suddenly, are there, just need a good development between Nadalind. Now they have to their son, who need to both of them. but beyond this new face of family Burkhardt-Schade i do need see them watching proffesionally too. i mean, Adalind coming back to her work and helping to Nick in his Wesen cases, of course. For that Nadalind are so great, they can work since so differents POV as family, as colleages, as allies, as members of the Scooby Gang...

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    • I watch "Grimm" two episodes at a time. I enjoy the story more and seem to have a pretty good grasp of the storyline.  I'm not a Adalind fan but it's clear (IMHO) that the writers are pushing for the romantic relatioinship between Nick and Adalind.  Couldn't help but chuckle as Adalind tells Nick she doesn't want to sleep alone.  I thought he would make up a palette on the floor in the room--NOT GET IN THE BED with Adalind.  Shades of "It Happened One Night".  However, when she told Nick she hadn't brought enough clothes and in need of more I knew there was a little sexual scene coming up.  We get to see (as well as Nick) Adalind wearing Nick's shirt with nothing underneath.  How many times have we seen that in films--the vamp wearing the hero's shirt and sashaying around the pad?  Since I'm  resigned to accept the Nick/ Adalind romance I only hope iut doesn't get too  hokey watching these two warm up to each other.  This relationship does get a break--Nick closest friends, Monroe and Rosalie seem so very accepting of the goings on and the times they had to defeat Adalind seems far in the background.

      Got a feeling Nick and Adalind will have shared a romantic kiss (or more) by Christmas.   

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    • Well i never was a fan of Juliette at all. and i tried so hard that she would like to me. I said to myself "come on, she´s sweet, she´s good, she´s the Nick´s one true love". But in the ending...i just got boring. Never what i was waiting, until that in a new episode (i usually jumped some of them in S1 and S2) i saw how Nick thrown over Adalind and bited her for take off her witch powers in S1.. i knew in that same minute that i would be doomed forever. Nick never would get anything and less romantic with this villain and now...all this is a kind of miracle. I just look their chemistry . David Giuntoli and Claire Coffee are a true sex bomb. They could even film together an erotic thriller oh my, my! Few couples are like them. Nick hates Adalind and loves Juliette in "Grimm" , but the last Nick that i´m watching does not seem hate to Adalind precisely . he´s looking at her like a woman? or that´s my thing? anyway, i´m agree with that they need more development and work in a lot of senses, but they are gonna to win something for Christmas, i´m agree with the Grimmster previous, that person have said a very welcome thinks, and the thing with Rosalee And Monroe, they´re seeing Nadalind come...and after all what Nick lost is good let Nick get a few of happiness, is more easier get a romance Nadalind that start with new people. and more funny as the shirt or bed scene. i think that the writers are pressing more and more the sexual tension until end having an explosion. Nick eat with his eyes to Adalind, even when she was a villain, in S1 you can check out , he does not seem a lot of motivation for kiss her...just pass his girlfriend´s mourning , indeed.

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    • There is sexual tension, that does not mean it is love. At this point if Nick said yes Adalind would sleep with him. I think the show will go on  with Adalind trying to saduce Nick and his not gving in. They will even kiss only to have Nick pull away, regretting it. This will go on episode after episode with Adalind working on ways to get Nick in the mood to give in.

      That will be the on going runing joke, why won't Nick slaeep with Adalind. Even through they share the same house, and for right not the same bed. 

      We will never know is it because Adalind really wants Nick or is it Adalind does not like no, and finds Nick a challenge.  

      If something happens to Adalind there will be a moment where she tells Nick she is in love with him, and Nick says he has come to love her also. But dead Juliette is what keeps them apart.  And that could be the Adalind frustration having to compete with a dead ex. 

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    • I'm still kind of in shock that they're moving this fast. Nick wouldn't move this fast if this were real, and if there wasn't some other force going on. Like it or not, he did have some pretty major feelings towards Juliette... that's what matters. Not our feelings... Nick's.

      There's a reason I focused entirely on theories behind Nick's behavior in my last posts. To me, Adalind's behavior requires no explanation. Especially the bewildered look when Nick hugged her. Kind of surprised that there are people trying to explain that look. I'm firmly sticking to my interpretation, which promises that there will be explanations in the show:

      Adalind looked bewildered by Nick's behavior, because Nick's behavior is bewildering.

      Chemistry or no chemistry, Nick and Juliette had far too much history for him to simply get over her like this, and chemistry or no chemistry, Nick and Adalind had far too much bad history for him to simply get over it like this.

      That's why I loved the look. Because it indicates that the show knows that Nick's behavior is bewildering, and by extension, promises that there will be some sort of explanation or development along those lines. That's why I like the, "Kelly's unconsciously affecting Nick's emotions" theory - it not only explains Nick's bizarre behavior in the last couple of episodes, but also allows for some interesting world-building (in the form of "Zauberbiests do this"), and most importantly, it furthers the Nick/Adalind development in a way that doesn't completely undermine Nick's integrity, completely ignore continuity, or insult our memory and intelligence.

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    • Katerine459 wrote:
      I'm still kind of in shock that they're moving this fast. Nick wouldn't move this fast if this were real, and if there wasn't some other force going on. Like it or not, he did have some pretty major feelings towards Juliette... that's what matters. Not our feelings... Nick's.

      There's a reason I focused entirely on theories behind Nick's behavior in my last posts. To me, Adalind's behavior requires no explanation. Especially the bewildered look when Nick hugged her. Kind of surprised that there are people trying to explain that look. I'm firmly sticking to my interpretation, which promises that there will be explanations in the show:

      Adalind looked bewildered by Nick's behavior, because Nick's behavior is bewildering.

      Chemistry or no chemistry, Nick and Juliette had far too much history for him to simply get over her like this, and chemistry or no chemistry, Nick and Adalind had far too much bad history for him to simply get over it like this.

      That's why I loved the look. Because it indicates that the show knows that Nick's behavior is bewildering, and by extension, promises that there will be some sort of explanation or development along those lines. That's why I like the, "Kelly's unconsciously affecting Nick's emotions" theory - it not only explains Nick's bizarre behavior in the last couple of episodes, but also allows for some interesting world-building (in the form of "Zauberbiests do this"), and most importantly, it furthers the Nick/Adalind development in a way that doesn't completely undermine Nick's integrity, completely ignore continuity, or insult our memory and intelligence.

      I wonder how Nick is gonna deal with KSB once Adalind gets her lawyer work back, but I don't think he's gonna leave him with a sitter all the time, especially since while he went somewhere no one would find him, people will still try to rob the place, especially since it's an uprising, and an uprising is very violent and forceful. Adalind I don't feel like is gonna last, especially since I can tell she'll try to get Diana back, and she could die fighting for her, but then again I also have the feeling Diana's a villain, so I can't judge if she'll die. Is there any page that has this theory, cause I would really like if people besides you who think the same, or otherwise, they're just assholes who're whining about Nick and Adalind being together with them just saying it's the shows fault. I do agree KSB's affecting his father's emotions, as if he's controlling him to keep his calm....and carry on. Also, if you're wise enough, do a quick bonus of which song uses the "keep your calm...and carry on" part.

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    • Scout Trooper 164 wrote:
      Is there any page that has this theory, cause I would really like if people besides you who think the same, or otherwise, they're just ...

      As far as I know, I came up with the theory on my own. It's possible that others have independently come up with the theory as well, but if so, I don't know where they are, sorry. :) I don't know of anyplace where the theory is being actively discussed, except here and on TV.com where I posted it as well (in the comments section of the review of the latest episode).

      I just want the show to either have Nick behave in character, or give us a satisfactory explanation why he isn't. In the show. (Writer interviews don't count, and fan speculation really doesn't count; if it's not in the show, it may as well not exist). I used to be able to take on faith that this would happen, and I'd like to see that faith restored.

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    • Ok Syscrash i´m agree with the part of Nick loving Juliette very much. But Juliette killed his mother, so by consequence of that, he can keep mixed feelings about Juliette. And i don´t see to Nick rejecting forever to Adalind by the absurd theory of Nick "loving to Juliette until the death, beyond the love, beyond the family, beyond the life itself...." like if she had been a kind of saint. The bitter truth is that Nick is following with his life. And no, my friend, Adalind is not trying of seduce Nick. For what she was gonna to make that? If she would want him as husband or as major couple, just by interest she would take another route, not trying to find a job, and to be independent. Because the day that she will want to be independent with the Wesen threat decreases will arrive. And when she has a work, and Kelly maybe yet has not shown any rare status Wesen, just a normal baby (i think that the writers will take the route of the child being a pure Grimm and for now a normal human baby) , Adalind will recoer the trust in herself and maybe will want a life own. I don´t see her seducing him, not confuse her natural seductive way with an intentional seduction. We´ve seen what happen when Adalind want to be seductive. With Sean she was the opposite of how she´s being with Nick. In fact, she was surprised when Nick embraced her in the last episode, because she knows very well that if there is a man whom she never could seduce is to Nick Burkhardt. He loves Juliette, but he´s trying follow with his life. I know that there are loves that any die. and i know how when a dear person dies you never maybe will find a love like that, because that person, as Juliette was maybe, was the love of your life. i can get this point. But not think that Nick is able of all temptation with Adalind by Juliette´s memory. Well he´s a Grimm not a monk. The bitter true is that Nick is meeting a new Adalind, he looks at her like if he never would have met her. And this season 5 is a reboot. Adalind is a revelation to Nick. And he´s been always attracted by her, since she´s really a ver attractive woman, pretty far of Juliette with all my respects. Nick´s character is changing too, he has lost everything and Juliette has a lot of fault. he loves Juliette yet, i don´t have doubts, but neither i have doubts with the idea that He´s startint to fall in love with Adalind Schade, because he likes this new version. She´s the opposite side of Juliette.

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    • Ah and Katherine, the only insult that Nick as character could suffer is the few credibility. I don´t see the need of write about him with an halo sorrounding his head of hero where have to  be written "I´m Nick Burkhardt the choosen one who always will love to Juliette because we have such loooong love story that does not matter in what she turned and what made to me". 

      Really the GrimmWriters are trying to give with "Grimm" an important lesson of life : the people in the real world die. Is part of our real life, and we can not return, in anyway. For that, Nick is in pain. His mother first, his fiancee later, next to his house, his trailer, his most dearest things are lost. But if the writers write a lovestory for him with Adalind, this won´t be less important in his life than his story with Juliette. Why would have to be? we don´t have any hurry for that, and Adalind with Nick less. All the theories of justify Nick loving Adalind, are such absurd like the people who said such things. The only truth about Nick Burkhardt´s true feelings is what you see with your eyes week after week, not the main of articles (the most of them fakes, just right now i´m reading now that is claiming how Monroe will die in the episode 6 and another one who tells how in the episode 100th, is about the 12? Nick and Monroe are travelling...and wtf? how was gonna Monroe to die in the episode 6 and to be ALIVE in the 12th?) so, you see how the main of fan theories or the articles are not worthy of trusting. Anothers maybe hints the truth, but is imporant separate. But you only can believe what your eyes are watching. And i am not watching Nick crazy in love with Adalind by his son. And i am not watching to Adalind madly in love with him as a teen hysterical. I´m just watching a man who is falling in love with her, but just is in the process; falling, not in love already. He´s in love with Juliette but is falling of Adalind Schade. He approves this new Adalind, and she´s not trying of seduce him, i´m pretty sure that she never will kiss him. Why? he just will talk with him and he will trust in her. But if they get something will be a process natural and gradual , very slowly. He has a lot of fight for to do. And she needs follow with her life. Kelly is nothing to do with the feelings that are borning on Nick. He´s treating Adalind well, and share with her the oportunity of raise their children, they can not trust in anyone and Nick never would support lost his child. 

      Like to us or not, his feelings for Adalind of content, frienship or attraction are reals. And we can not overvalue the love of Nick by Juliette, the only idea of think in him like a kind of monk the rest of his life just by his devotion to her fiancee dead yeah is an insult. He wouldn´t be a normal human being, but Superman. He will need the need of warm, of family, or love to someone real again. if is not Adalind, will be another new woman, a new character. I don´t know if Juliette will come back or not, but one thing is sure, the writers are giving us a natural process in the Nadalind romance. Nothing is happening fast, nothing is happening suddenly. One part of Nick always has been attracted to Adalind Schade, she´s very beautiful , how Nick remembers his first  meeting with her....like a kind of crush i´d say if i´d be Juliette i´d be worried about that part of Nick´s mind. Nick is a human being and will come back to love again. Make of him a saint, a man eternally in love with his woman dead, is not worthy of true writers, but of stupids. If this would be real life, he would come back to love, to any woman, is a natural process. And Adalind´s not trying seduce him...i see her tired, bitter, and sad, very weak for how she was before. She´s just a mother. 

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    • 83.97.252.96 wrote:
      Ok Syscrash i´m agree with the part of Nick loving Juliette very much. But Juliette killed his mother, so by consequence of that, he can keep mixed feelings about Juliette. And i don´t see to Nick rejecting forever to Adalind by the absurd theory of Nick "loving to Juliette until the death, beyond the love, beyond the family, beyond the life itself...." like if she had been a kind of saint. The bitter truth is that Nick is following with his life.

      You have a habit of arguing against things that people never said, and arguing against incidental things instead of the main point of people's posts. You did it to me too, a few weeks ago. It's irritating. Please stop.

      I don't believe that Syscrash ever said that Nick will hold onto Juliette until death, rejecting all others. In fact, I don't believe anybody has said that. There have been varying degrees of, "Nick wouldn't get over Juliette's loss this fast," and other people saying, "Nick might move on, but not with Adalind, because there's too much bad blood between them," but there's a big difference between either of those things, and, "Nick will love Juliette until the death, to the exclusion of everybody else, and will never move on."

      83.97.252.96 wrote:
      And no, my friend, Adalind is not trying of seduce Nick. For what she was gonna to make that? If she would want him as husband or as major couple, just by interest she would take another route, not trying to find a job, and to be independent. Because the day that she will want to be independent with the Wesen threat decreases will arrive. And when she has a work, and Kelly maybe yet has not shown any rare status Wesen, just a normal baby (i think that the writers will take the route of the child being a pure Grimm and for now a normal human baby) , Adalind will recoer the trust in herself and maybe will want a life own.

      I agree that Adalind will want to be more independent. Who wouldn't, in her position? To answer the question of why she would seduce him, the answer's right there: right now, she's completely dependent on Nick: somebody who had repeatedly (and with good reason) threatened to kill her in the past. Except for Nick and his friends, she's entirely alone with no job and a baby. Naturally, she would pull out everything she has in order to stay on his good side. That means making use of every tool at her disposal. Those tools include a) Kelly, and b) the attraction between her and Nick. She has to be really careful about using the latter, though, since if Nick catches on, it could go very badly for her, and she knows it.

      Hence the hanging bra in the bathroom, coming out without pants (frankly, if it were me and I genuinely had no interest in seducing the guy, I'd put the pants back on, even if they had some baby vomit on them), etc.

      This isn't to condemn Adalind - actually, this is just about the least diabolical thing she's ever done. She's not being conniving, just desperate. And before you protest that there's a genuine attraction and admiration there on her part as well... I'm not saying there isn't. I'm just saying... take off the rose-colored glasses, and see what's actually going on. What's actually going on is more interesting than a fairy-tale romance where the former villainess suddenly has a complete personality overhaul, anyway. More layers. More dimensions.

      83.97.252.96 also wrote:
      I don´t see her seducing him, not confuse her natural seductive way with an intentional seduction. We´ve seen what happen when Adalind want to be seductive. With Sean she was the opposite of how she´s being with Nick. In fact, she was surprised when Nick embraced her in the last episode, because she knows very well that if there is a man whom she never could seduce is to Nick Burkhardt. He loves Juliette, but he´s trying follow with his life. I know that there are loves that any die. and i know how when a dear person dies you never maybe will find a love like that, because that person, as Juliette was maybe, was the love of your life. i can get this point. But not think that Nick is able of all temptation with Adalind by Juliette´s memory. Well he´s a Grimm not a monk. The bitter true is that Nick is meeting a new Adalind, he looks at her like if he never would have met her. And this season 5 is a reboot. Adalind is a revelation to Nick. And he´s been always attracted by her, since she´s really a ver attractive woman, pretty far of Juliette with all my respects. Nick´s character is changing too, he has lost everything and Juliette has a lot of fault. he loves Juliette yet, i don´t have doubts, but neither i have doubts with the idea that He´s startint to fall in love with Adalind Schade, because he likes this new version. She´s the opposite side of Juliette.

      She was surprised when Nick embraced her, because a) she wasn't expecting anything to happen just yet, and b) because Nick's behavior was legitimately surprising.

      Mainly, where we disagree, is the idea that Nick is making a deliberate choice to move forward... with Adalind. Right now. If that is what the writers are putting into the show, then I guess I will be going from 1 show that I watch religiously, to 0. I can't watch a show where the writers play that fast and loose with something as important to the quality of the show, as consistent characterization for the protagonist.

      Nick has always... always... been a fundamentally monogamous man who was deeply in love with Juliette. In Season 1, a Daemonfeuer - one of the most empirically attractive women I've ever seen - jumped him... and he just lay there like a rock. The only time he ever came close to being with anybody other than Juliette was when he was roofied by a Musai. His monogamous nature has always been a firmly established aspect of his personality. Someone like that, when he goes through a betrayal and loss of the woman he had been in love with, will go through an extended mourning period, followed by a rebound romance, and then maybe something serious. And, serious or not, chemistry or not, he would only get into something with Adalind specifically - a woman that Juliette hated with a passion - after he is thoroughly finished grieving for Juliette. Which won't be for a long time yet.

      Note that I said, "a long time yet." Again, big difference between "a long time yet," and "never."

      And, of course, I'm talking about what would happen if it were entirely up to Nick, and if he grieves at the normal rate for somebody like him. All bets are off if there's some sort of external force at work here. :) All I ask is, if that's the case, that it be established. Like, in the show. Not here, in the discussion boards, where 99% of fans will never see it.

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    • 83.97.252.96 wrote:
      Ah and Katherine, the only insult that Nick as character could suffer is the few credibility. I don´t see the need of write about him with an halo sorrounding his head of hero where have to  be written "I´m Nick Burkhardt the choosen one who always will love to Juliette because we have such loooong love story that does not matter in what she turned and what made to me". 

      Really the GrimmWriters are trying to give with "Grimm" an important lesson of life : the people in the real world die. Is part of our real life, and we can not return, in anyway. For that, Nick is in pain. His mother first, his fiancee later, next to his house, his trailer, his most dearest things are lost. But if the writers write a lovestory for him with Adalind, this won´t be less important in his life than his story with Juliette. Why would have to be? we don´t have any hurry for that, and Adalind with Nick less. All the theories of justify Nick loving Adalind, are such absurd like the people who said such things. The only truth about Nick Burkhardt´s true feelings is what you see with your eyes week after week, not the main of articles (the most of them fakes, just right now i´m reading now that is claiming how Monroe will die in the episode 6 and another one who tells how in the episode 100th, is about the 12? Nick and Monroe are travelling...and wtf? how was gonna Monroe to die in the episode 6 and to be ALIVE in the 12th?) so, you see how the main of fan theories or the articles are not worthy of trusting. Anothers maybe hints the truth, but is imporant separate. But you only can believe what your eyes are watching. And i am not watching Nick crazy in love with Adalind by his son. And i am not watching to Adalind madly in love with him as a teen hysterical. I´m just watching a man who is falling in love with her, but just is in the process; falling, not in love already. He´s in love with Juliette but is falling of Adalind Schade. He approves this new Adalind, and she´s not trying of seduce him, i´m pretty sure that she never will kiss him. Why? he just will talk with him and he will trust in her. But if they get something will be a process natural and gradual , very slowly. He has a lot of fight for to do. And she needs follow with her life. Kelly is nothing to do with the feelings that are borning on Nick. He´s treating Adalind well, and share with her the oportunity of raise their children, they can not trust in anyone and Nick never would support lost his child. 

      Like to us or not, his feelings for Adalind of content, frienship or attraction are reals. And we can not overvalue the love of Nick by Juliette, the only idea of think in him like a kind of monk the rest of his life just by his devotion to her fiancee dead yeah is an insult. He wouldn´t be a normal human being, but Superman. He will need the need of warm, of family, or love to someone real again. if is not Adalind, will be another new woman, a new character. I don´t know if Juliette will come back or not, but one thing is sure, the writers are giving us a natural process in the Nadalind romance. Nothing is happening fast, nothing is happening suddenly. One part of Nick always has been attracted to Adalind Schade, she´s very beautiful , how Nick remembers his first  meeting with her....like a kind of crush i´d say if i´d be Juliette i´d be worried about that part of Nick´s mind. Nick is a human being and will come back to love again. Make of him a saint, a man eternally in love with his woman dead, is not worthy of true writers, but of stupids. If this would be real life, he would come back to love, to any woman, is a natural process. And Adalind´s not trying seduce him...i see her tired, bitter, and sad, very weak for how she was before. She´s just a mother. 

      Ok, this makes more sense. :) I'd written my last post as you were writing this, btw... things are a little clearer now.

      It does still kind of bug me that you're saying that I'm saying that Nick needs to be written with a halo, when I never said any such thing. When I talk about Nick's integrity in this context, I'm not exactly talking about him rejecting Adalind because of his integrity - I'm talking about his integrity and the love he'd had for Juliette, forming a wall between him and even thinking of Adalind in that way. That wall would just naturally be there, until he's done grieving for Juliette and the wall can come down. That's just human nature, for a fundamentally monogamous man who'd just suffered a loss as sudden and traumatic and closure-less as what happened with Juliette. If Nick were real and there were no external factors at work here, this would take a long time.

      And FYI, when you write about Nick "falling in love with" Adalind, the natural assumption is that you're talking about "falling in love" like in romance... you know, the kind of "falling in love" where you're actually consciously aware of it. :) That's likely where the confusion is coming from. A far better term for what you seem to be saying here, would be, "Nick's feelings towards Adalind are softening."

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    • i don´t need moral classes for justify my opinion, Katherine. I am free for answer to our your opinons in the level that i think is fear. 

      I´m just a Grimmster, but i dont´need a speech praising all the good sides of Nick Burkhardt feelings. I don´t need such roll for watcht the truth, not my truth, but the only truth. And Nick is living with Adalind, and he´s falling in love with this new Adalind. sometimes your unconcious betray you in your writing, you and me know very well what you really think about Nick & Adalind don´t you? But is happening. 

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    • I can't help but wonder if the fans who prefer Adalind over Juliette for Nick  are caught up on LOOKS.  If the actresses playing the roles were reversed would the fans then  prefer Juliette over Adalind for Nick?   I guess I'm saying what if the Grimm series started out with Nick and Adalind as the couple with Juliette as the villain--would fans be so eager for Nick to be with Juliette?

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    • 99.126.173.65 wrote:
      I can't help but wonder if the fans who prefer Adalind over Juliette for Nick  are caught up on LOOKS.  If the actresses playing the roles were reversed would the fans then  prefer Juliette over Adalind for Nick?   I guess I'm saying what if the Grimm series started out with Nick and Adalind as the couple with Juliette as the villain--would fans be so eager for Nick to be with Juliette?

      Well, there's really just the one rabid fan on here, and I can't speak for him/her. There are several others (myself included) who would like to see Nick with Adalind at some point, though, so speaking for myself:

      I actually think Bitsie Tulloch is more attractive than Claire Coffee. So, no, that has nothing to do with it, at least not for me. I'd like to see Nick eventually with Adalind, because they do have more chemistry. Although, to be frank, with the exception of just three scenes in the entire series, Nick had more onscreen chemistry with just about everyone than he did with Juliette.

      I remember the exact moment when I first saw chemistry between Nick and Juliette, and it was in episode 3.13 (Revelation ) - three and a half seasons in. There was one moment, when Nick was worrying about Monroe, and Juliette was comforting him. Then there was another moment at the beginning of Chupacabra where they had a lot of chemistry... and then of course there was the jail scene in, I think, Mishipeshu, and that's about it... which is kind of sad for a long-term onscreen romance.

      Onscreen chemistry is kind of an elusive thing, and it's largely felt by the audience. When Adalind freaked out after Nick got the visit from the FBI and Nick took her by the shoulders, I could feel chemistry there. Part of it is probably just that Adalind is a somewhat more interesting a character than Juliette ever was up until Chupacabra - there's a reason I said "of course" regarding the jail scene - that scene was sizzling with chemistry - but that scene happened after Juliette became interesting (and before her character stopped making any sense at all, and I therefore started feeling angry at the writing, and completely apathetic towards her character).

      So... no, my feelings aren't exactly related to the actors, or rather, they're related to the actors only so far as they embody their roles. More than anything else, I want to be able to suspend disbelief. That is, I want to believe in the show, at least while the episode is playing. A show that can't get me to do that is a show that's not worth watching. When I watch the show, ideally, I'm not seeing actors at all... I'm just seeing characters. I don't see David Giuntoli and Claire Coffee - I see Nick and Adalind. And I've been known in the past to fall in love with characters that are played by actors that I don't find physically attractive (Michael Shanks is not my type at all, but I had a massive crush on Daniel Jackson for years). For that matter, DG isn't really my type either, but I love Nick. And I think I'd love him no matter who played him (well, provided that they played him the same way!)

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    • Is all a matter of chemistry, that´s the bitter truth. David Giuntoli has a chemistry onscreen with Claire Coffee pretty far higher than his poor chemistry with Bitise Tulloch (does not matter if they are a couple in the real life, too Angelina, is the wife of Brad Pitt and they have more chemistry with anothers colleages in their movies than between themselves in their own movies). And Claire is much more prettier than Bitsie. 

      Is very morbous see to Nick dealing with his incredible attraction for a villain so cute and danger as ADalind than see him in the bed kissing to Juliette. 

      Is a very empty argument, i know, but is the cause because Claire´s role prevails and juleitte not, by the moment. David´s woman onscreen in his career always will be Claire or some woman like her. I don´t have the answer for more. is a natural chemistry.. This is not about Juliette and Nick is about David and Claire, and their roles. 

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    • 83.97.252.96 wrote: Is all a matter of chemistry, that´s the bitter truth. David Giuntoli has a chemistry onscreen with Claire Coffee pretty far higher than his poor chemistry with Bitise Tulloch (does not matter if they are a couple in the real life, too Angelina, is the wife of Brad Pitt and they have more chemistry with anothers colleages in their movies than between themselves in their own movies). And Claire is much more prettier than Bitsie. 

      Is very morbous see to Nick dealing with his incredible attraction for a villain so cute and danger as ADalind than see him in the bed kissing to Juliette. 

      Is a very empty argument, i know, but is the cause because Claire´s role prevails and juleitte not, by the moment. David´s woman onscreen in his career always will be Claire or some woman like her. I don´t have the answer for more. is a natural chemistry.. This is not about Juliette and Nick is about David and Claire, and their roles. 

      Finally, someone is telling the truth about the chemistry between David and Claire on the show that I love their performances as their characters developed slow burn and I can't wait to see what happens next between Nick and Adalind. Also, yes Claire is more beautiful than Bitsie.

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    • Yes, that was i think. I don´t need give a speech like here some people make for say the truth. 

      The truth is hard the main of times, because the life rarely is fair. 

      But David Giuntoli is not Nick Burkhardt, he´s in love with B. T. and i find this perfect. But his natural chemistry is for a Beauty as Claire Coffee is. 

      David onscreens seems about to eat alive to Claire, that thing never happened with B. T. At all. But maybe B.T. suffer the same with anothers actors too in her own movies. Claire Coffee is here because she´s pretty, her charcter is evil & dazzling, who turns confused to Nick right now, such that he´s falling in love with her. She´s his best couple, always has been, is not fair, is not the best for Nick, but the chemistry and the contrast between them is growing more and more everytime. 

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    • Kinda what a lot of us expected to happen.

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    • Everyone knows that David loves Bitsie and I do too. Down the line I love to watch the slow burn chemistry between Nick and Adalind the way David and Claire portrayed them.

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    • Yes, Aboutnici, David can date who he wants, like if she wants date with a tree. i respect all his decisions, because i really don´t care at all about his real life. I desire happiness for him, is his work in Grimm in what i´m interested. 

      But Claire Coffee is much more beautiful than B. T will be ever . 

      And she fix with Nick Burkhard absolutelly, she´s turning mad to Nick in S5, he does not know how deal with his sexual attraction with Adalind. He´s trusting in her, is a slow burn passionate. And their contrast is like if all the Broadway´s lights would turn on at same time.. You can not think in another thing when Adalind & Nick are sharing a scene together over all in S5. if they almost make exploit the screen being enemies imagine now being roomates & parents. Things like the protection, the jealousy , the danger, the hate forgotten will reach them...and just will apporach each other more yet. 

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    • Nick and Adalind are most likely fall in love and get married and live happily ever after. It's the best fairy tale twist ever.

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    • Wow.  Got a sad feeling when I think of the mayhem Adalind causes (with help) and to see her walk off into the sunset with Nick is kinda sad.

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    • I don't know what the technical term is for the kind of psycologically damaged person Adalind is, but it is evident that she is

      Abandonment issues: Her dad left when she was 4, serious daddy issues, why she wanted Sean's "attentions" like her mom did

      Speaking of mommy Schade: "Mommy Dearest anyone"? It's one thing to strive to be better than your parents and have them push you. It's something else to know that they barely tolerate you and you're there as "tool" to advance your mom's agenda

      Raised where "Might Makes The Rules": Hey, live in that household with the above issues, you're bound to be a wee bit warped

      Now I don't think Adalind is a psycho nor sociopath, but she had to be one to survive in the lifestyle of a Hexenbeist kid and then a high powered vulture, er, lawyer, you need to develop a "kill or be killed" attitude

      What really matters is how Adalind responds to being helpless and how she connects with those who are around her. Can a leopard change its spots? Not if the spots are added to protect oneself and it was never a leopard to begin with

      Nick is a "Good Guy", something Adalind never has known before

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    • Ok for to be ok, though my eyes did not lie to me lol 

      i´ve been cheking out all my material: making editions of pics, studing planes, scenes, quotes, checking FanArts of both women, and i can conclude what i always have been thinking. 

      Claire Coffee is much more attractive in any possible sense than B. T. Claire Coffee has a classic angelical beauty that contrast with her evil character, that´s what more chemistry give to her character with the David Giuntoli´s Nick Burkhardt. 

      The path will be very long for Nick, he´s living with problaby the woman most cutest of the whole Portland. he had a kind of mental eclipse when met her in the street while the pilot, even before she´d woge. 

      So, the Grimm´s dealing with this woman with such beauty is gonna to be hard for him. he does know what is live with a woman like that. Her seductives manners are dangerous, a lot of fans think she´s trying of seduce Nick, but is how she´s in a innocent way. 

      The reason of her chemistry with Nick is because he always has found her very attractive, because Claire Coffee really is one the current TV´s actresses more cutest. nothing to do with B. T. less beauty, and less chemistry with Giuntoli onscreen. that´s all. 

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    • Seems to indicate if you're good looking you can get away with a lot. Despite being responsible for how the original girlfriend turned out Claire can walk away with it all. Who says crime and misdeeds doesn't pay?

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    • 99.126.173.65 wrote:
      Seems to indicate if you're good looking you can get away with a lot. Despite being responsible for how the original girlfriend turned out Claire can walk away with it all. Who says crime and misdeeds doesn't pay?

      There is a lot of truth in that. If you're popular, rich, good looking, sweet talker, etc. you can cheat, lie, etc, and people will forgive you. Hell, they will even call the one trying to point it out "jealous", the not nice version of "confused", etc

      Like the many stars who have done terrible things, the rich families that "are above reproach", etc., that is called reality

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    • Sad but so true.

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    • After this episode Nick and Adalind relation will really be strained. For Nick to have to work with someone who looks and sound like Juliette but not Juliette how will he ever get closure. Even if it is Juliette but as a  permanent hexenbiest to Nick that is the same as being dead. 

      When Adalind hears that Juliette is back and super charged, then to find she will be working with Nick. That will surly put a strane on anything they might have had going. 

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    • Syscrash53 wrote:
      After this episode Nick and ADalind relatikon will really be strained. For Nick to have to work with someone who looks and sound like Juliette but not Juliette how will he ever get closure. Even if it is Juliette but as a  permanent hexenbiest to Nick that is the same as being dead. 

      When Adalind hears that Juliette is back and super charged, then to find she will be working with Nick. That will surly put a strane on anything they might have had going. 

      Well, the other idea, that Kelly (mom), Juliette, and Meisner had this whole thing planned gets a real boost.

      Perhaps it was Juliette who left Nick.....

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    • LCD2YOU wrote:There is a lot of truth in that. If you're popular, rich, good looking, sweet talker, etc. you can cheat, lie, etc, and people will forgive you. Hell, they will even call the one trying to point it out "jealous", the not nice version of "confused", etc

      Like the many stars who have done terrible things, the rich families that "are above reproach", etc., that is called reality


      So true what you say. And that lets me freaking out. Normal people are condemed by the community for thing which are understandable, but people who have good society connections or money things are trivialized and forgiven. But the attitude will never change. It will always be a two class community.

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    • yes sadly in this world a pretty face open more doors than an usual or ugly one. 

      Is unfair, but is what we have. 

      Now Juliette is coming, but she´s not really. mmh. is strange, pretty much similar to Fred in "Angel" coming later like Ilyria, a character robotic that never found the happiness again. 

      I´m asking to myself if the writers will follow this line again. ok, i will be sincere. BT is coming back because she must be jealous of have her character dead while his boy in the fiction is being stealing by Claire Coffee. i saw her reaction official to the scenes shooted by Nick & Adalind in her twitter. Always was little , but there is the envy inside that behavior. The GrimmWritters gave to her coming back under this character that is gonna to be a little pathetic i´d say...like Ilyria, is the same skeleton, because the writers at last one of them was in the script of Season 5 of "angel". Now the relationship between Nick and Adalind will be in danger, well i don´t think so. The natural reaction of Adalind will be leave Portland with Kelly, of course but i am not sure until that point Nick will be ready of give up to his growing kind of love by Adalind and to his son, not even if [Spoiler] would be really Juliette. The love is what is, so strange & weird.....i can see Nadalind really shipping though BT think that not. Maybe the will kill Adalind off, and if Adalind is the famous death in Season 5, then we have the easy and predictable endgame: Nick x [Spoiler] the frankestein Bride. lol i hope they don´t create a creepy love triangel and can give us a worthy love story for Nick. if not with Adalind, with another woman, but not with his undead frankestein bride. Is good know separate proffesional life of private life, look how ended Nina D. And Ian S. in TVD....

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    • If BT is getting jealous of David and Claire's on screen chemistry, just think what Claire's husband and father of her real life baby is thinking

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    • Wow.  I was caught up in your interpretation of where this story could go.  Thank you for the ride. Hope the writers can come up with something as good or better.

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    • If you think about it, there was always some “attraction” and of course tension between Nick and Adalind.  From the first episode, where Nick was checking out and analyzing this “attractive” lawyer (Adalind) and she noticed him and smiled back but got nervous cause she was probably attracted to him too. Of course when Wesen get nervous they Woge.

      When Adalind was on a mission to put Hank in a coma, she asked Sean why she is not doing it with Nick since he is the Grimm, she later also mentioned this to her mom as well but the mom said not to question Sean’s plans.  So she’s been wanting to be with Nick since the beginning.

      Also this season they talked about “you were my first Grimm and you were my first Wesen”  awwww lol.

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    • Ok what i am not understanding about the creepy love triangle (omg) that i ´m watching coming to Grimm is, what is Nick doing with Adalind in the promotional photos of 5x07 taking a caffee, when HE HAS SEEN to JULIETTE AGAIN, the love of his life?? why he´s not searching her AS A MAD MAN, AS THE CRAZY IN LOVE that he´s really with Juliette? ok i get the fact that he´s angry with her for kill his mother, and the anothers horribles things that she´s done, but his PRIMORDIAL INSTINCT should to be looking her by land, Earth & Air...not to be in his home, weting in his paints with an almost kiss with Adalind taking  A COFFE? WHAT IS happening to Nick with Adalind??? seems that he likes her much more than Juliette. he has suffering a kind of crush or WHAT? HELLO NICK! the easy way is there for the writers: kill off Adalind and get Nickette again...and i´m imagining nick SENDING adalind out with kelly to a sure place with Money in plan "ok, Adalind, go away, THE CREEPY LOVE OF MY LIFE IS HERE....!" , you know. i was imagining Nick fighthing and fighting and fighing for get the true Juliette back and spend with her the  rest of his lifetime. but i see him with Adalind taking a coffee...instead to be hysterical crying by all the corners by his Juliette!!! really i´m not understanding nothing in Grimm...they have the path easy for Nick and Juleitte again. and he´s liking Adalind now? and his blind love by Julliette, '?? i really do think that Nickette is the endgame because is the most easy and BT is his real girlfriend, who is so vulgar  next to Claire Coffee...bleh. 

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    • The reason why Nick wasn't searching for Juliette was he thought she was dead.

      Also, he had no leads to go on and he still has responsibilities.

      Now he has seen Juliette BUT we don't know what happens next as it just happened

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    • Brimmski wrote:

      If you think about it, there was always some “attraction” and of course tension between Nick and Adalind.  From the first episode, where Nick was checking out and analyzing this “attractive” lawyer (Adalind) and she noticed him and smiled back but got nervous cause she was probably attracted to him too. Of course when Wesen get nervous they Woge.

      When Adalind was on a mission to put Hank in a coma, she asked Sean why she is not doing it with Nick since he is the Grimm, she later also mentioned this to her mom as well but the mom said not to question Sean’s plans.  So she’s been wanting to be with Nick since the beginning.

      Also this season they talked about “you were my first Grimm and you were my first Wesen”  awwww lol.

      Honestly, I think the attraction was more from Adalind's side. Adalind was and is a love starved, affection seeking little child who wants to "experience real love". Great sex and adoration are nice, but like eating a candy bar, while it's sweet and keeps you going, it leaves you hollow inside and craving real food.

      Nick was in love with Juliette and getting ready to pop the question. However, as I am a guy and I know how we think, if you see something that attractions you, the "5 second fantasy" plays out. That is not that men are unfaithful, just the way evolution programmed us.

      It is not until the visual cues, going through the reptialin brain part and getting into the pre-frontal cortex do most guys "catch ourselves" from the biological impulses that come with being an evolved animal

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    • I mean that Nick seems too much stuck to Adalind. 

      and my guest is that is is not normal. He should spend the whole episode 5X07 with juliette not in his home with Adalind! i know how the men think. 

      And Nick is really attracted to Adalind now, you and me know that. and this attraction is gonna to be a problem for recover Juliette. He loves Juliette but likes Adalind, is the most oldest story ever in the world, he could cheat his girlfrind with adalind. Nick does not loves to Adalind at all, but he´s lusting by her since the first day and now she´s next to him, the excuse perfect for get it reality. all the men and even the women has sexual fantasies with friends, neighbours, fictional characters  plus their true  couples. Everybody think that Nick is gonna to leave Adalind so easy for Juliette. we see what will happen but won´t be so easy. he´s about to kiss Adalind in 5X02 and in 5X07 as the promotional one. 

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    • [Spoiler] is not mad at Adalind for tunring her into a hexenbiest, because she likes being a hexenbiest. I am sure she is still mad that Adalind sleep with Nick, now has his son. With them living together in the same room. [Spoiler] will have nothing to say to either of them. 

      I do not see [Spoiler] trying to kill Adalind or hurt Kelly.  She will be mean to Nick. A subplot will be [Spoiler] making NIck and Adalins life tough. 

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    • 83.97.252.96 wrote:
      I mean that Nick seems too much stuck to Adalind. 

      and my guest is that is is not normal. He should spend the whole episode 5X07 with juliette not in his home with Adalind! i know how the men think. 

      And Nick is really attracted to Adalind now, you and me know that. and this attraction is gonna to be a problem for recover Juliette. He loves Juliette but likes Adalind, is the most oldest story ever in the world, he could cheat his girlfrind with adalind. Nick does not loves to Adalind at all, but he´s lusting by her since the first day and now she´s next to him, the excuse perfect for get it reality. all the men and even the women has sexual fantasies with friends, neighbours, fictional characters  plus their true  couples. Everybody think that Nick is gonna to leave Adalind so easy for Juliette. we see what will happen but won´t be so easy. he´s about to kiss Adalind in 5X02 and in 5X07 as the promotional one. 

      You forgot that Nick has JUST learned she's alive. As to Juliette's state of mind, to me it's clear that unlike Nick, Juliette is taking aunt Marie's advise to cut ties with Nick

      As to Nick trying to be with Juliette 24x7, in the US, if you are around someone who does not want anything to do with you, that's called stalking

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    • Nick should to spend the rest of season trying of recover the OLD jULIETTE, that THE most awaited. She is the air in his breath. Adalind means nothing. I´m waiting for watch Nick running as a mad man behind Juliette, who-now-not remember-who-is-really-until-that-Nick-kiss-her just like in Season 2...i´m waiting something like that, easy and free. But...ok as the time line. In the last minute from the last episode Nick looked Juliette and she leaves fast. Then he will go to his home, for take the dinner, or sleep a little, you know, those things that the real people make sometimes...and there, he´s gonna to be with Adalind because we have eyes and he looks every time more and more stuck to her. and he will follow in that state, though Juliette. i think. is a new Nick´s feeling. But...he shouldn´t to be weating his paints with Adalind, as he looks. he should to be screaming "Julieeeete" by the streets, such is his blind and endless love by her. maybe i´m a little exagerated, but i want let clear my point: Nick leaving Adalind and running behind Juliette the whole season, that is what i think that will happen, until that Adalind dies. But at same time, i ´m watching Nick like having a crush or falling or maybe lust, i don´t know By Adalind....Nick must delete his feelings by Adalind and go away behind of Juliette. Does not matter what she has done, how she is alive, the most important thing is get Nickette as endgame. And KElly in a safe place. that´s what i mean.

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    • 83.97.252.96 wrote:
      Nick should to spend the rest of season trying of recover the OLD jULIETTE, that THE most awaited.

      She is the air in his breath. Adalind means nothing. I´m waiting for watch Nick running as a mad man behind Juliette, who-now-not remember-who-is-really-until-that-Nick-kiss-her just like in Season 2...i´m waiting something like that, easy and free. But...ok as the time line. In the last minute from the last episode Nick looked Juliette and she leaves fast. Then he will go to his home, for take the dinner, or sleep a little, you know, those things that the real people make sometimes...and there, he´s gonna to be with Adalind because we have eyes and he looks every time more and more stuck to her. and he will follow in that state, though Juliette. i think. is a new Nick´s feeling. But...he shouldn´t to be weating his paints with Adalind, as he looks. he should to be screaming "Julieeeete" by the streets, such is his blind and endless love by her. maybe i´m a little exagerated, but i want let clear my point: Nick leaving Adalind and running behind Juliette the whole season, that is what i think that will happen, until that Adalind dies. But at same time, i ´m watching Nick like having a crush or falling or maybe lust, i don´t know By Adalind....Nick must delete his feelings by Adalind and go away behind of Juliette. Does not matter what she has done, how she is alive, the most important thing is get Nickette as endgame. And KElly in a safe place. that´s what i mean.


      Juliette doesn't seem to want it.

      Why should Nick get the woman he loved back when she doesn't want to come back?

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    • I don't think that Nick and Juliette/[Spoiler] is going to happen again after that fiasco with the trailer and his mother's death. It's time for him to let go of the relationship he had with Juliette and concentrate on his newfound relationship with Adalind and Kelly. If he goes to work for the HW, he's determine to get Diana back for Adalind, because Diana is now part of his family. Also, Nick will help Meisner and Trubel to stop the plans of the uprising.

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    • All this talk about what Nick should do, rather than what he would do. sigh.

      As for myself... I no longer have any idea what Nick would do. That's really not a good thing for the show.

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    • I have the strange feeling that Grimm is getting everytime more darker and stranger. 

      Even their characters. And is so bored all these talkings speaking about if Nick will end with Adalind, with the Bride of Frankenstein [Spoiler] or with his dog. 

      Really a lot of characters are tuning hateful. Trubel whom Nick loved as a sister and whom he saved, is now keeping secrets to him; how he will react when discover that Meisner is the Juliette´s new daddy Frankestein and Trubel her mother, having turning her in this monster for killing? Pfff and with Adalind, well nick is drooling on top her the man of time, and the woman looks like a model, i don´t see anything strange in imagine Nick feeling ok with her. But by another hand, always is more cheaper come back to the always cheesy and easy finale with Nick and Jul-Frankenstein. 

      But i am agree with you, aboutnici hopefully Nick could pass the page in his life. BT again in the show...Ah.....ZZzzzz . really i need see another movies of this actress because her voice, her scenes, her presence in Grimm is so bored, maybe in anothers works is better. 

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    • Just got finished watching the last two episodes and it seems as if the show is revving up to compete with the many super hero type shows which are all over tv. Must admit I love seeing our heroes (Nick, Hank, Monroe, Capt. Renard, Rosalie and Wu) fighting on the same side.  Wouldn't be surprised to see Adalind join their cause.  

      Have NO idea where the writers are going with the story but I do believe some romantic sparks on in the making for Nick and Adalind--because so many fans want it.  However, I must ask if Nick were your son would you want him to be with Adalind?

      Looking forward to the next season--does that mean we have to wait til next fall?  Sigh.

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    • 99.126.173.65 wrote: However, I must ask if Nick were your son would you want him to be with Adalind?

      Umm . . . No?

      I might be the only person on this site who cringes when they see Nick and Adalind interact. I just don't buy Adalind's nice act. She's done far too many bad things for me to forgive her and start shipping her with the main lead in 6 episodes.

      And this is Grimm. They're going to shake things up. I don't think Nick, whoever he ends up with, is destined to have a "happy" future with anyone for a while yet. Adalind also said she will be a Hexenbiest again at some point in the future and when she is, she'll start singing a different tune to the: "Oh I want a normal life with Nick and the baby". If when she is a Hexenbiest, she decides to take Kelly and run off into the sunset with Meisner, then I'm all for it. Good riddance and one of my ships has come to fruition :D

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    • 101.184.19.208 wrote:
      99.126.173.65 wrote: However, I must ask if Nick were your son would you want him to be with Adalind?
      Umm . . . No?

      I might be the only person on this site who cringes when they see Nick and Adalind interact. I just don't buy Adalind's nice act. She's done far too many bad things for me to forgive her and start shipping her with the main lead in 6 episodes.

      And this is Grimm. They're going to shake things up. I don't think Nick, whoever he ends up with, is destined to have a "happy" future with anyone for a while yet. Adalind also said she will be a Hexenbiest again at some point in the future and when she is, she'll start singing a different tune to the: "Oh I want a normal life with Nick and the baby". If when she is a Hexenbiest, she decides to take Kelly and run off into the sunset with Meisner, then I'm all for it. Good riddance and one of my ships has come to fruition :D

      She's obviously not going to take Kelly, because she'll be dead the minute she comes to that conclusion and so will Meisner. Nick's old, but he's not weak nor dumb. Yes, it's odd that they're bonding quite fast, unless if KSB's doing it, but if she leaves with Kelly, Nick's obviously not going to stay in Portland, he's gonna be like a father allosaurus. I understand you hate the pairing, but if you dare spark another pairing with Kelly being taken as Meisner's stepkid, you're screwed, because Nick's gonna raise his boy alone if she does that. Even his friends won't agree with that. If you want Adalind/Meisner, fine, but leave Kelly out of it or the pairing's going to last as long as a cutscene.

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    • I think what is meant here is that Adalind is not a welcome addition to Nick's troubles and it would be best to see her go, in whatever way or form. I feel geniunely sorry for the guy. Heartache after heartache for him this season.

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    • WE have seen four season of how dangerious it is to know a Grimm. With the uprising the danger will increase. At some point Nick will need to send Kelyy away for his protection. At least you hae to remove him from center stage. and the bunker is currently center stage. 

      They started with the idea this is a secure place. only tow have it breached to two people who should have had no idea where it is. 

      crazy idea is the door in the bunker  isa back door to HW.  Ok don't post that idea has so many holes it is not funny. The diggest problem is they are not near each other. But the real reason for the back door idea was so the sow could introduce the concept of portals. Now don't say no soe fast. With the hexen magic they have done so far not so far fetch. I mean henretta could send messages, which would be a portal of sorts. 

      Just my two cents. The group will hold on to hope of curing Juliette. I just hope the arc and character does not revolve around the cure. Please don't let the keys be tied to a cure. 

      I my opinion Juliette is a hexenbiest, embrace it, accept it, let that be what she is. Go more toward, the two biggest mortal enimies Grimms and Hexenbiest working together. 

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    • Juliette is the past and Adalind is the future.

      So much hate for Adalind, no doubt that she burned lots of bridges along the way.  However beleive it or not people can change even a Hexenbiest :). With Juliette it was a very new sensation for her and power hungry, while Adalind she was always a Hexenbiest so it was "normal" for her.  You have to remember Monroe used to be a "killer" too but now he has changed his ways.  Also if you recall ALL Grimms, they chop off the head of every Wessen they encounter and even Nick's mom wanted to decapitate Monroe!  Nick is a "special" Grimm.  So that being said why can't Adalind be allowed to be good or change?  All she asked Nick was to protect her and Kelly and be a dad.  At the end of the day they can only hold on to their feelings for so long.

      Kelly SB could be seen as an Abomination!

      I personally want to see Nick and Adalind get it going!

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    • There is a difference between stopping an activity such as monroe and his killings. It is another to change a personality trait. If your whole life you where self centered. If that is how you learned to survive. How do you learn to be selfless, especially when you are strugling to exist. 

      To not kill just never draw blood. What do you do on a day to day basis to be selfless. You can work a soup kitchen all day and still be self centered. That fact that you are doing it to prove you are not selfcentered is being self centered. 

      That is why it's hard to believe Adalind is good. Yes she has helped others. Yes she has tried to be sociable. But as of yet she has not done one selfles act. The potion that was for her benifit as much as to help Juliette.  Juliette getting Nicks Grimm back in no way benifited her. In fact she had to give of her self and be her enemy for the only purpsoe of helping her friends Monroe and Rosale. Who at the time she need them the most shunded her for making the sacrifice. And people wonder why Juliette was mad. 

      When Adalind gives of her self for someone else I will believe she might be good. But even just before Kelly's birth. Adalind put Kelly at risk taking the potent. Most women wont even drink wine for fear of fetal damage. But Adalind downs some crazy potion she is not even sure about.  But we get all these comments on her being a good mother, even though should could have poisned he unborn child, because of something to benifit her.  Anyone want to make book on would she trade Kelly to live in the castle with Diana. 

        

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