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ALL POSTSThe Nature of Hexenbiests and Zauberbiests
<p>Given the fact that the species possesses a woge, i think we must still consider them wessen no matter the radical differences between tem and other species. It is possible that they are one of the mythical races that developed alongside the bestial races, and that their powers stem from a certain dichotomy of their being, the physical and the spiritual. They seem to be something of a cross between a zombie and a ghost, the existence of which is well documented in the series. Their physically decayed form might allow for the seemingly more tenuous connection o their spirit. This spirit endures in the world even after they die, forming a collective of hexenbiest spirits, who are able to make consious decisions, such as restoring Adalin's powers. This would explain why there are ritualistic elements in the ritual to restore hexenbiest powers rather than purely biologicl means. Consider that theur body essentially allows them to function as mediums, channeling not only their spirit but alo the spirits of those hexenbiests who endure in the world still and that their powers could stem from this.. It may be that all wesen are created through this way and that grimm's blood works on hexenbiests because of the more tenuous connection to their spirits. Their woge allows them to better channel spirits, but requires a spirit of one's own to initiate. Juliette may have gained the needed genetics to be a vessel for such spirits due to her time in Adalind's body, the DNA lingering in some way. Made hexenbiests then are more powerful because the spirits suit them perfectly to receiving and channeling their power. Zaubertranke could require this spiritual influence to work, sperating the seemingly magical powers of zaubertranke from the more mundane work of Rosalee, perhaps the essense of their kind being neccassary to funnel the power into the mix. If Diana were channeling past spirits, it would explain her extraordinary intellect as ababy, allowing her to direct Meisner specifically to get firewood rather that her psychic abilities starting a fire in the cabin, as she might have access to their collective knowledge and experiences. The hands that blessed Adalind are accounted for in both what the mean, whose testing her, and where they come from. It is possible that Sean's human side grounds his spirit, preventing him from reaching out to channel spirits or perform such feats as telekinesis.
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(Edited by administrators)
<p>The one area of the show I would like to see explored is how the wesen came into existence. Being based on fairy tales around the world; the writers could come up with whatever they wanted to explain wesen origins. I can see Nick asking Monroe about it and he goes into a long explanation.
</p><p>I also had the idea of a virus helping create the initial wesen, but if it kept some science a virus would be hard to explain for many of the wesen that have been shown. It could easily explain the mammalian wesen, like Blutbad, icebeaver, and such, more difficult to explain for avain wesen (but possible), very hard for ones like the spinnatod and manticore and almost impossible for a hexenbiest. There is also the problem of wesen that do not have a comparable real life animal counterpart--the orge, asswang, mermaids and several others.
</p><p>The show has taken a turn with the Juliette/Eve story arc. Initially hexenbiests were more of the witches/hags of fairy tales with spells and potions but Juliette/Eve appears just to be super powerful--a trained killing machine using mind power. I don't think it could continue just doing the "wesen of the week", but it is getting away from the roots of the show.
</p><p>Along with the origin of the wesen, it would be interesting to learn more about the royals; their powers and how they got into control. It could have been that in antiquity the royals discovered how to create all wesen, used them to get into control of civilization, but lost control of the wesen at some point.
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(Edited by EMAWGrimm)
<p>Because of the uprising we should get a lot of what started the fighting. Plus they say the keys are going to be addressed, that will also allow for origin back story. I think the show will have more of a battle field attmosphere, instead of a city with crime some of it wesen. What will be interesting is how the wesen will conduct and all out war while the humans are unaware of what is going on. The battles will be explained to match current unrest we see every day. Instead of being around the world there will be a consentration in portland.
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(Edited by Syscrash53)
<p>guys..try to keep this purely about hexenbiests..i can see we are already digressing... ;)
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(Edited by The Grand Witch of Essex)
<p>I think that the whole Wesen world is linked to Hexenbiests...because of the magical nature of each woge.
We see all sorts of things happen when Wesen woge: hair disappears then reappears, ears grow, teeth elongate, scorpion-like tails appear then disappear, feathers & beaks appear then disappear...
Think about it.
Each woge is magical in nature.
It's also worth noting that all Wesen seem to have a sort of primal fear of Hexenbiests...why is that?
I suspect that it goes back to the beginning, to the origin of Wesen.
Perhaps it's simply a fear of the power that Hexenbiests wield.
Or perhaps...it's a respectful fear for the powers that created all Wesen.
Whatever was powerful enough to create Wesen, is also powerful enough to destroy them.
It's interesting that Wesen suffer from Umkippen if they woge too often.
Albert Bowden referred to the 'power' that all Wesen feel when they woge.
Perhaps it is this magical power that, when used too much, causes Wesen to suffer from Umkippen?
We don't know if Hexenbiests are immune to Umkippen or not...they haven't addressed this yet in the show.
But it was interesting what Elizabeth Lascelles said in 'Highway of Tears' to her son Sean, after she had done the spell to re-Grimm Nick...
Elizabeth: "These rude épreuve take more and more out of you the older you get."
Elizabeth made it look almost effortless the way she created that potion and used the Hat to perform that spell...but apparently it took it's toll on her.
This makes me wonder if Juliette will experience any negative effects if she uses her powers a lot. </p>
We see all sorts of things happen when Wesen woge: hair disappears then reappears, ears grow, teeth elongate, scorpion-like tails appear then disappear, feathers & beaks appear then disappear...
Think about it.
Each woge is magical in nature.
It's also worth noting that all Wesen seem to have a sort of primal fear of Hexenbiests...why is that?
I suspect that it goes back to the beginning, to the origin of Wesen.
Perhaps it's simply a fear of the power that Hexenbiests wield.
Or perhaps...it's a respectful fear for the powers that created all Wesen.
Whatever was powerful enough to create Wesen, is also powerful enough to destroy them.
It's interesting that Wesen suffer from Umkippen if they woge too often.
Albert Bowden referred to the 'power' that all Wesen feel when they woge.
Perhaps it is this magical power that, when used too much, causes Wesen to suffer from Umkippen?
We don't know if Hexenbiests are immune to Umkippen or not...they haven't addressed this yet in the show.
But it was interesting what Elizabeth Lascelles said in 'Highway of Tears' to her son Sean, after she had done the spell to re-Grimm Nick...
Elizabeth: "These rude épreuve take more and more out of you the older you get."
Elizabeth made it look almost effortless the way she created that potion and used the Hat to perform that spell...but apparently it took it's toll on her.
This makes me wonder if Juliette will experience any negative effects if she uses her powers a lot. </p>
(Edited by Lurkenfrau)
<p>Sean is refered to as half zauberbiest. Does that mean Adalind and all the hexenbiest so far dad's are zauberbiest. Of the wesen we have seen there seems to be a balanced mix of male and female. Hundjagers we have seen mulitple examples of the speices but all male. That can be explained by we only see them in military role and not a sample of the population. But when it comes to hexenbiest we see an actual sample of the population, all female.A lot of the hexenbiest personallity traits such as beauty and vanity are female. Makes you wonder is Sean a really rare occurance. If Sean is half zauberbiest then any female off spring would be half hexenbiest unless there are adult zauberbiest. Maybe because his father was not a zauberbiest he did not get full powers like his mom. This would not give Kelly much of a chance to be powerful. It seems so out of balance that with as many female hexenbiest. Not once has a male even been mentioned.
</p><p>When it comes to Kelly his Grimm side would only add strength, and hearing. If we only use big Kelly and Trubel you could say he could have a very aggresive person. But as a male that would not kick in for years. Assuming hexenbiest are like other wesen the change happens around puberty. This his zauberbiest side being activated will only give him strength. But add in his Grimm streangth when he becomes and adult. He could be super strong. But how do you have Grimm eyes in a woged biest face. It just seems a Grimm and Hexenbiest would more then llikely cancel each other.
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(Edited by Syscrash53)
<p>@syscrash53, that was actually a discussion on another topic actually that didnt get much resolution, about how hexenbiests procreate since there are hardly any zauberbiests to mention, my theory anyway is that female zauberbiests always come out full no matter what the father is, zauberbiest or human (does that make sense? i guess not, seeing is that diana was described as 3/4 hexenbiest with trace human DNA from sean) or that male zauberbiests must have a zauberbiest father or theyll come out half-zauberbiest like a sean. maybe hexenbiests with half-hexenbiest children do something that is equivalent to the contaminatio ritualis to gain full hexenbiest powers (by sacrificing their favourite pet or something) and sean didnt want to get full zauberbiest powers because his mother wanted him to have a "normal" life or because she didnt want him to be too powerful and bloodthirsty.
</p><p>about kelly, dont forget, adalind has made herself (and by extension, juliette) immune to grimm blood (or at least nick's blood, so the grimm and hexenbiest gene would not technically cancel each other out, seeing is how the verfluchte zwilingswester (or contaminatio ritualis, i dont know) has made their DNA compatible to one another (which would allow for successful reproduction) so kelly would indeed exhibit zauberbiest powers, at least until the suppressant wears off in his teens. he'd be freaked everytime he looked in the mirror in woge mode tho, thinking he was gonna kill himself..lol
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(Edited by The Grand Witch of Essex)
<p>I'm just gonna say it. i love hexenbiests but I think where Kelly is concerned that we are going to be looking at a super Grimm and not a super Zauberbiest, not only because I maintain my belief that the Grimm side would naturally prove more potent, not removing the other side but certainly dominating it, but also as a matter of plot and narrative. His sister has the subtle, feminine side of things with her powers and he will likely have the more brutish physical side. Simply to balance one another out rather than being a repeating plot element. In response to the earlier statement about underlying magical properties, I really hope that you are wrong. I don't think you are, but i fear outright saying it is magic rather than the pseudo science they favored in the beginning will open them up to lazier plot and saying "cause its magic" as the reason that anything gets acomplished. What we need to figure out for certain, and I think this will clear thing up greatly, is the exact nature of spirits in the Grimm universe. Are they souls, astral projections, energy beings, life forces, essences, or some other variant on this? Should we consider them from a religous standpoint or strictly scientific? If creating a potion was draining I would say they are tied to life force in some way, but also possibly bleeding some of the essence of their power away. That could explain why Juliette has had little issue with her power up to this point as she would have plenty in reserve. We know that some hexenbiest related force lingers in the terrestrial plane, so they endure in some way after death. As it is capable of conscious decision we can conclude that it is sentient and possibly the bestial side of them. Given that this is what Adalind's woge was tied to, i think it is likely the source of all woges, different spirits in different bloodlines, Not necassarily a soul, but rather a metaphysical essence that manifests. We know about various natural spirits and demons of non human origin, and I think the native American spirit caused physical change but I could be mistaken as its been a while since I watched the episode. It is unlikely that hexenbiests are the source of wesen, but I think that they are one of the central species along with non-chimeric mythical wesen. Hexenbiest tools and the extreme nature of woges makes me think that science has gone right out the door, but we know for a fact that this is ot just inherited spirits but manifests in the DNA so this is outright shapeshifting to such degrees that I would be surprised if it didn't bordeline on breaking the laws of conservation of mass and energy. Realisticly, they shoul be drained of energy if the process occured through biological mechanisms.
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(Edited by HexenBest)
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt;line-height:107%;font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif;background-image:initial;background-attachment:initial;background-size:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial;background-position:initial;background-repeat:initial;">Physical science has gone out the window from the very beginning. Even using star trek logic you could never explain a woge. On a physical level it would require the manipulation of matter. There is more mass when woged then when not. The only explanation is the woge is a mental manifestation. Except the manticore tail kills that idea. But then you can't explain his tail and wearing pants. So even without hexenbiest a form of magic needs to exist to explain the woge. So if magic exist why not have master of the magic. This gives us hexenbiest.
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt;line-height:107%;font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif;background-image:initial;background-attachment:initial;background-size:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial;background-position:initial;background-repeat:initial;">I see the natural order of the wesen community as the hexenbiest are at the top. Hexenbiest have access to the magic that makes wesen possible. You have humans who don’t have a problem with hexehbiest. In fact it was humans that seeked the help of hexenbiest to create Grimm’s to control the wesen, that where terrorizing the communities.
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</p> <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt;line-height:107%;font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif;background-image:initial;background-attachment:initial;background-size:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial;background-position:initial;background-repeat:initial;">We have never seen a hexenbiest fear a Grimm. In fact the first time henrietta saw Nick she welcomed him in. Something other wesen never do. Yet when wesen meet hexenbiest, it is like seeing a Grimm, the fear response kicks in. </span> </p>
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</p> <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt;line-height:107%;font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif;background-image:initial;background-attachment:initial;background-size:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial;background-position:initial;background-repeat:initial;">We have never seen a hexenbiest fear a Grimm. In fact the first time henrietta saw Nick she welcomed him in. Something other wesen never do. Yet when wesen meet hexenbiest, it is like seeing a Grimm, the fear response kicks in. </span> </p>
(Edited by Syscrash53)
<p>omyGAWD, i never realized that before @syscrash53, it would make sense that the royals enlisted the help of hexenbeists (since hexenbiests, quote, "work at the behest of royalty") to create grimms.
</p><p>@hexenbest, yeah using magic as a plot is lazy, and its much harder to create new mythologies and explanations like what monroe and rosalee's character are all about, since they always use science and lore to explain how a wesen operates and what neutralizes their powers. its harder to come up with ingredients that makes sense, even though its all made up. but the zaubertrank is kind of scientific in a way, a primitive science that predates modern science, after all, magic is just undiscovered science in my opinion. it doesnt excuse the writers from using reasons based on genetics or legend, than it excuses them using hexenbiest "magic" in a similar way because as long as they limit the hexenbiests to the hat, the skeleton key, the grimoire etcetera, then i wouldnt mind letting them get away with some things, unless time travelling is introduced then im done. lol.
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(Edited by The Grand Witch of Essex)
<p>My biggest fears for this show arise fromthe possibility that such creatures as hexenbiests will be used to justify ressurection, time travel, reality warping, god-moding, or creating new magical issues that tak eover the plot like in The Vampire Diaries or Superatural. It should retain the limitations we find in natural things, with clearly established constraints an limitations.
</p><p>Regarding the earlier comment, when considering the self serving nature of hexenbiests, i find it unlikely that they would purposefuly create beings with the power to undo them with their blood. Unless we consider te possibility that this power arose as a result of their essence producing them. Something like a double-edged sword. Henrietta was prepared for Nick, Adalind and Catherine were on the offensive, Frau Pech had no dealings with a Grimm, and Elizabeth was aware of Nick and not his enemy. They have never been caught off gaurd like many of the other species. I think that siegbarste koschie hexenbiests and the like (forgive the terrible spelling) all stand in the same area. Koschie for instance can heal wounds at an immpossible rate and cure people, meaning that they can tap into a similar kind of power as hexenbiests. Radiation could not explain the feats they accomplished. The excandesco ( again, sorry) was able to direst jets of firce from his hands in a conical fashion with no apparent method of projecting it in such a way. With Catherine's performance agaist Kelly, it is likely that she is far weaker than such creatures. They would be unlikely to fear her. Hexenbiests are part of the upper crust, boasting abilities that the royals find useful, but not so powerful that they can't be controlled. They would have to be a species that doesn't naturally pown everything otherwise they sould have take over the royals by now or been exterminated for being to great a liability. The royals must be able to control them.
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(Edited by HexenBest)