Grimm Wiki talk:Community Portal/Archive2

Hässlich/Reapers/Trolls
There's some controversy over terminology. An IP editor has changed the species of Hulda and Reaper from Troll to Hässlich. I think that the Hässlich are a group of trolls. I think that's what NBC has told us. Back about the middle of February, I proposed merging Reapers (Group) with Hässlich. There have been no responses and I'm getting ready to roll. Comments please.-- 14:57, March 4, 2012 (UTC)
 * Amen. Bob the WikipediaN (talk • contribs) 21:06, March 4, 2012 (UTC)
 * Executing and renaming "Reapers (Group)" to Reapers, which I'm leaving as a redirect.-- 19:21, March 12, 2012 (UTC)

German Vowels
I've added those "pesty" German vowels (Ä ä Ö ö Ü ü) to the MediaWiki:Edittools. That's the box that comes up when you click on the plus sign below the word "more" while in edit mode. I haven't seen any use for the capital letters, but they're there.-- 01:18, March 15, 2012 (UTC)
 * The capital ones are used in nouns and in Österreich (Austria). I just added the ess-tzett, the German punctuation marks, and some German and other popular currency symbols, just in case they come in handy. Bob the WikipediaN (talk • contribs)05:33, March 19, 2012 (UTC)


 * But we could easily do with ae for ä and ue for ü and oe for ö. Its how Email ids are also donoe for such names in Germany.
 * Rubelle (talk) 05:13, May 3, 2013 (UTC)

The other Grimm Wiki
Hello guys, while browsing some profile pages of recent contributors to our wiki I found out Grimmival has the Grimm wiki listed twice under his favorite wikis list. When I click on one of the links, it went to grimmaccess.wikia.com. The name (not the url) is exactly the same as ours, Grimm Wiki. He is the creator and there is only 28 pages on it.

I am not trying to make anyone upset, especially not Grimmival. I just think he should rename it. Like to the Grimm Wiki Fansite or something. The only reason I am bringing this up is that it could be confused with this wiki. What do you think? ~ 03:18, 04 April 2012 (UTC)


 * Since Grimmival is an editor here and bureaucrat over on the other wiki, he'd like to share his goals for the other wiki with us.-- 12:33, April 4, 2012 (UTC)

Article make-up.
Alright, I'm new, not sure how this all works, but I've been browsing the pages (correcting a few typos here and there) and I noticed that the tense in pretty much all the articles differs, sometimes it's past tense, sometimes present- sometimes even both in one article. Wouldn't it be neater (and easier on the eyes and brain) if it was all the same? Might be just me not being a native English speaker... Unwrought (talk) 21:35, January 7, 2013 (UTC)
 * We lack a specific policy. Theoretically, episode pages should be in the literary present. Other pages should be in simple past tense. We have not done a good job of enforcing this concept.-- 22:04, January 7, 2013 (UTC)

Episode Titles
I vote that we can name episode articles their actual titles (instead of things like Episode 37 ) for episodes even if their title isn't revealed through NBC or another reliable non-spoiler site, but a "spoiler" site that is usually correct on this sort of thing. A lot of other wikis that don't want spoilers still allow episode titles to be revealed.
 * I think including real titles, even if they later prove to be incorrect and have to be changed, is not a bad idea. Titles rarely spoil the plot.-- 01:34, January 24, 2013 (UTC)
 * I agree, we can always change it if the title is incorrect. ~ Leodix ( talk •  contribs  •  pictures ) 05:43, January 24, 2013 (UTC)
 * Fine with me. - RaptorWiki (Ryan) 10:10, January 24, 2013 (UTC)

I think we have a consensus. Episode titles may be posted when revealed by a source deemed reliable by the Grimm editor.-- 02:18, January 25, 2013 (UTC)

Season Villains
Okay are there any disagreements with the inclusion of a category stating the charter is a villain, or what season they where a villain in? I personally see no reason for disagreement with this, so what does every else think on the idea? General MGD 109 (talk) 19:25, January 27, 2013 (UTC)
 * I don't think these categories are really needed. I don't think anyone has even been called a villain on the show.
 * Well your right, no charaters have been ever called villains (considering the show isn't aimed at children) but you can't denie that there are charaters who take the role of the antagonist, ever single episode has them, up to date they all have, and they all will, granted there are more sympthatic antagonists or tragic antagonists, or antagonists that aren't really antagonists, but the point is they all take the role of the villain. So why not group them all together? After all we group charaters on there race, there possition in the cast, and how minor they are, so why not group the evil ones together? After talking to Raptorwiki, I agree that seasonal villians might be a bit redundate, but villians themselves aren't. General MGD 109 (talk) 15:32, January 28, 2013 (UTC)

Writer of Authorized Grimm Novel asking
Hi I'm John Shirley, I've been hired by Titan Books and NBC to write the authorized Grimm novel. It's about 40% done. Anyway, NBC is not making it a priority to answer my questions...I actually suspect some producer there is just not getting around to checking his email from the publisher...and while I have watched all the available shows, read many of the scripts and gleaned much from this wiki and wikipedia, I was hoping you Grimm experts could give me some solid data on one or two things...trouble is the production is keeping some of it kind of vague, I suspect on purpose.But is it clear to you that Juliette knows (or doesn't know) that Nick is a Grimm...and about Wesen? I inferred that she was aware already but perhaps not... It's a bit murky... I know that Hank is aware of it all... What's the full name of that council that keeps Wesen sticking to the code, anyone know? I heard it tonight but couldn't quite make out what was said... Novelists are kind of far down the food chain where TV networks are concerned... I used to write television too, and sometimes write tv animation. I may write live action again. I wrote an episode of Deep Space Nine. I also co-wrote the movie The Crow if you're a fan of that.

John Shirley

Http:www.john-shirley.com has all the info on me, or enough. you can also find a wikipedia entry on me. I didn't write it but last I looked it seemed pretty accurate.Writer Authorized GrimmNovel (talk) 05:31, March 16, 2013 (UTC)
 * To get the name of the council, just watch the episode on NBC.com or Hulu tomorrow and turn on the captions.
 * oh captions, well I may do that if I can't find out another way, thanks. This thing is confusing. Don't see how to respond to other people's topics. I was going to talk about Renard's hexenbiest thing (he definitely is).
 * Just do what you did to respond to this. Click edit by the section's name and go to the bottom of the conversation and respond. Make sure you sign your posts by putting ~ though.

BTW, the captioning on Grimm is pretty good. (There's another series I follow where if you look at the captioning, you'd think you were reading an alien language made up of English words.) As to Juliette, unless she saw something in her coma that we're not aware of, I don't think she knows about/remembers Grimms and Wesen yet but she's edging closer. Last night's final scene was "interesting." I haven't done the rewatch yet, so I can't tell you the council's name but I wouldn't be surprised if a page for it shows up in the next couple of days.-- 15:08, March 16, 2013 (UTC)

thanks for that folks - more later -

71.202.210.136 21:57, March 16, 2013 (UTC)


 * I put the spelling of the code in the continuity section of.


 * Juliette has heard the word Grimm (Bud said that Nick was a Grimm in ) but does not know about Wesen or know what a Grimm is, as of
 * Dragonfighter1 (talk) 08:36, April 20, 2013 (UTC)

Gesetzbuch Ehrenkodex
So, just this little jewel get a page? Is it part of the mythology? Is it an object? An event? What about the Council (De Groot's group)?-- 00:58, March 17, 2013 (UTC)
 * I think it may deserve a page... it's an unwritten code, but it's very important in the Wesen world. And the council have a page (Wesen Council)
 * Ya got ahead of me! -- 01:07, March 17, 2013 (UTC)
 * Go ahead and make a page for the code. Hopefully we'll get more info about it in future episodes.

Collapsible Episode/Character Lists
Infoboxes can get very long when there are a lot of line entries. I think we need to concept/idea about when the list of episodes a character/location/object has appeared or been referenced and the same for characters that are associated with (primarily) a place. I'd rather not think of it as a "rule." comments?-- 18:13, March 31, 2013 (UTC)


 * I think that when the list of items causes the infoxbox to require a roll up to be fully visible, that is the time look at using a refererence list. Of course this is an entirely subjective viewpoint without definite parameters as it is based on the screen I am using when I view the page.  Dragonfighter1 (talk) 17:01, June 19, 2013 (UTC)
 * Good point. I'm a "one screen guy;" I can look at Wikia with my Nook, but I've done it exactly once. Sometimes a rule is completely unnecessary.-- 17:37, June 19, 2013 (UTC)

Incarcerated
What do you think about an "Incarcerated" icon, guys? Just like the "Dead Icon" we already have (Template:D). Several of the Wesen we see in the show, are criminals in jail or deads. --Grimmopedia (talk) 15:01, April 13, 2013 (UTC)

I like that idea, we should create one. General MGD 109 (talk) 21:32, April 13, 2013 (UTC)
 * Depends on what the icon looks like. Have any ideas?
 * Bars? General MGD 109 (talk) 21:49, April 13, 2013 (UTC)
 * Are we going to assume that a Wesen who lived and was never seen again is in the slammer? I offer Billy Capra as a possible exception.-- 22:01, April 13, 2013 (UTC)
 * Considering Nick's a cop, then unless its stated they got away, yes there either locked up, or dead. General MGD 109 (talk) 22:04, April 13, 2013 (UTC)

What about something like this? http://i.imgur.com/RKaT0ZN.png
 * Never mind, the white background makes it look bad.
 * Exactly, handcuffs but without background. Or might be a portland police badge? Grimmopedia (talk) 01:42, April 15, 2013 (UTC)
 * Good idea, but anyone know how to edit an image by photoshop deleting the background? I can't xD  ~ Leodix ( talk •  contribs  •  pictures ) 04:39, April 16, 2013 (UTC)
 * Or, if we can't photoshop the background out, we could use Paint.Net or MSPaint to color in the background with the matching color of all the page.


 * I know how to use photoshop. Just tell me what the plan is and I'll start working on it. Anita95 (talk) 07:02, April 28, 2013 (UTC)
 * Here is a photo of handcuffs without background, http://grimm.wikia.com/wiki/File:Handcuff.png Anita95 (talk) 17:32, April 28, 2013 (UTC)
 * Here is a photo of handcuffs without background, http://grimm.wikia.com/wiki/File:Handcuff.png Anita95 (talk) 17:32, April 28, 2013 (UTC)

Classification scheme
As many of you have noticed, we're trying a classification scheme again for the Wesen. This was tried once before but failed; since I wasn't involved with the first go-around, I am not sure what flaws became its demise. The scheme I've set up over the last week or so is intended to be of use to everyone, be they casual browsers or scientists who are passionate about zoology and want something more technical.

To start things off, each Wesen that we are able to classify has been assigned to a category. For example, Blutbad and Coyotl have both been assigned to. This, along with and  might seem intuitive to most of us, but the average Wikian might not understand that foxes are not canines but rather are vulpines and will be found in, and also may have difficulties figuring out its placement in the classification scheme. Thanks to opinions expressed by my non-zoologist fellow admins for pointing this out!

Here's what you need to know to effectively browse through these categories:


 * If you are a zoologist, you're set. Category navigation is as simple as browsing through the phylogenetic tree.
 * If, like most Wikians, you are not, there are now some navboxes on all the taxon pages designed specifically for people like you. The navboxes have all the sciency gibberish replaced with common English words and a clickable thumbnail picture for quick recognition.

The navboxes omit several of the in-between categories, and may even save you a few clicks. If, however, you are interested in phylogeny and are looking for particular sets of taxa, the in-between categories are still included in the category structure.

A few ground rules:

Since the admins of this wiki generally hold a deletionist perspective on things, I advise against creating new categories for the classification scheme unless the category will contain at least two members, or unless the category will hold the "wastebasket" members left over from the creation of such a category. Bottom-level categories MUST be included in the navboxes and must be reachable using the navboxes.

Enjoy! Bob the WikipediaN (talk • contribs) 00:14, May 18, 2013 (UTC)


 * Now, how would we classify Wesen such as Glühenvolk, which have reptilian skin yet show some primate behavior? Reptile, or primate?
 * And this is where we need to find ourselves a cryptozoologist. :) Anyone know one? Bob the WikipediaN (talk • contribs) 01:15, May 18, 2013 (UTC)

Well, to be a reptile, the organism has to be cold-blooded. We have no knowledge of what blood they have, warm or cold? Do they regulate their own body temperature? I think so, otherwise, why go to Alaska?
 * Not true; there are lots of warm-blooded sauropsids. All the dinosaurs that are still living today are warm-blooded, and it's thought that warm-blooded dinosaurs were the norm back in the Mesozoic. Bob the WikipediaN (talk • contribs) 03:11, May 19, 2013 (UTC)
 * Reptoids.com places them in the dinosaurs. Works for me. Bob the WikipediaN (talk • contribs) 03:34, May 19, 2013 (UTC)

Well, dinosaurs don't actually fit into a single classification that we know today. The fit into the groups Avian and Reptilian
 * Since when? Dinosaurs are archosaurs and include all birds. Bob the WikipediaN (talk • contribs) 05:39, May 19, 2013 (UTC)


 * Actually, reptiles isn't an official classification anymore, as reptiles have been found to not be monophyletic. This should be reflected in wesen classification. Intelligence4 (talk)


 * In the science community, "reptile" is still used quite often, though you are correct that it's not monophyletic. It's generally used to mean "all sauropsidans excluding avians". Bob the WikipediaN (talk • contribs) 17:11, July 14, 2013 (UTC)

Summaries
Some of the character pages are getting long. I have summarized Wu's appearances for Season One and moved the details into a new page. If it's not a good idea, we will revert; I thought it was easier to demonstrate than explain. I picked Wu because he was easy. Comments, please.-- 15:54, May 19, 2013 (UTC)
 * I haven't put a category on the subpage yet.-- 16:44, May 19, 2013 (UTC)
 * I don't think we really need subpages right now. Does it matter if a page gets long, as in is their a page size limit on wikia?
 * There's no limit, but sometimes longer pages can take a while to load.-- 18:22, May 19, 2013 (UTC)
 * Oh, I haven't had that problem. I thought it only took longer to load with lots of images.
 * In my experience, a page not loading due to its length depends more on the state of the computer. It can take longer to loader on any computer depending on the amount of files it has, like videos and images. Especially gifs.

Reverted.-- 02:38, May 21, 2013 (UTC)


 * Funny, I was just getting ready to post about this problem myself! Articles on this wiki should not be in episode-by-episode narrative format. Rather, they need to read like a regular Wikipedia article. Narratives such as the ones we've got on most character, Wesen, and episode articles are borderline copyright infringement, and should only summarize the important points. When possible, we should write in a prose style rather than an episodic narrative account. Remember, the wiki is a supplement to the series, not a replacement. Bob the WikipediaN (talk • contribs) 13:30, May 23, 2013 (UTC)

New backdrop?
Are we ready for a new backdrop? Seems with comic season having just started, a comic-oriented backdrop would be appropriate. Or we if we want to keep the television series the main focus, perhaps someone could throw something nice together with Photoshop...a cliffhanger-oriented one might be nice, featuring Eric, Adalind, Stefania, Samedi, and Sean-- the five characters that are at the "top of the food chain" right now. Bob the WikipediaN (talk • contribs) 00:16, June 11, 2013 (UTC)
 * You should ask here for one to be made
 * Anyone have a preference for comic or cliffhanger themes for the summer? Bob the WikipediaN (talk • contribs) 03:10, June 11, 2013 (UTC)


 * With the comics currently only running to 5 issues (AFAIK), and no details of print run size I think that the backdrop should remain within the TV series. Dragonfighter1 (talk) 20:33, June 11, 2013 (UTC)


 * Updated. Bob the WikipediaN (talk • contribs) 01:45, July 21, 2013 (UTC)

Timeline
When do the comic books take place in relation to the episodes? In the episodes there never seems to be a break with enough time for Nick to travel to Europe to destroy the coins, but he does so in the comics...So far, I've been unable to find an answer and would love it if you guys could help me out. Intelligence4 (talk)
 * I have not read the comics, but if they take our stalwarts out of Portland, I'm beginning to think that they qualify as semi-canon, at best. Further, that means things like Kelly Burkhardt being held captive are also semi-canon. It is not easy to integrate a sub-plot into a major story line. If you're looking for a start point for a timeline, I'd say that TV Wesen that the comics version of the characters remember puts the comics timeframe after the episode in which that Wesen appeared. (If the characters discuss Glühenvolk, the time is after that in .) If you wanted to start a timeline, I recommend starting a new page and linking to it from Timeline using the For template.-- 20:15, June 11, 2013 (UTC)
 * I also have not read all the comics, and so can't estimate the length of time that they cover. There are, however plenty of "gaps" in the second series where a week or two is not covered once apart from the - - sequence. Obviously they have to take place after, but that is all. The other concern is the reason for their abscence from Portland, since in  it is stated that Hank hasn't taken leave for four years. Dragonfighter1 (talk) 20:47, June 11, 2013 (UTC)
 * As best I can tell, they diverge from the television series either between Mr. Sandman and Volcanalis (per Hank's knowledge of Renard being a Hexenbiest, and Hank not being on crutches, Baron Samedi not being on the loose in Portland, and Nick being in a normal state of activity), or else part-way into season 3. Until evidence suggests otherwise, they're two distinct stories. Bob the WikipediaN (talk • contribs) 23:53, June 11, 2013 (UTC)


 * Good point about, so assuming that they're not going to reveal how Nick gets back to normal, this ties it down quite well.  Do the credits for the comic have something like "based on" or "inspired by"?  This could suggest that NBC see them as two separate series. Dragonfighter1 (talk) 01:14, June 12, 2013 (UTC)


 * In Nick says that he has received an email from his mother saying she is in Europe and makes what he thinks is a reference to the coins. So if these events occur in season two then they must occur between  and . Dragonfighter1 (talk) 00:28, June 17, 2013 (UTC)


 * Nice catch! I'd forgotten about that! The comic is written by Jim Kouf & David Greenwalt. It says "based on", in answer to your question. Bob the WikipediaN (talk • contribs) 20:47, June 22, 2013 (UTC)


 * Per the producers during the Comic-Con panel, the storylines are unique and don't really fit together. Bob the WikipediaN (talk • contribs) 14:11, July 23, 2013 (UTC)

No one asked about the forthcoming(?) novels. We'll have to wait and see on those.-- 22:05, July 23, 2013 (UTC)
 * Haha...I guess it hadn't crossed my mind either when they brought that up! It won't be too difficult to add another parameter to the divergence template and add a few more lines to the swap script. We're now writing about two universes, why not add a third... Bob the WikipediaN (talk • contribs) 02:55, July 24, 2013 (UTC)

Character summaries
I have suggested that for main characters (at least for now) we get rid of all of the episode headlines and just combine everything for each season into paragraphs. We'd still mention which episode was being talked about at the beginning of the first sentence or in the first sentence when a new episode was being talked about. I've done an example here with Wu's season 1 appearances. For now this is mostly for the main characters since they have appeared the most, but we could probably do it for all characters eventually. Paragraphs made need to be cleaned up to make better transitions between episodes, but it's a start.


 * Interesting idea, but I think that we should look at what is the purpose of the character pages. If the pages are to be a biography of the character's role in the series and comics then the change makes it more like a narrative. If the pages are to be an adjunct to each episode description, focusing on the actions of the character for each episode, then we should retain the current format. On a personal note I like the current format, since if I want to see what a character did in one episode I can jump sraight to the reference by using the link in the contents.  I also find it easier to edit the articles if there is a defined section to be added/changed.  Dragonfighter1 (talk) 00:33, July 15, 2013 (UTC)


 * Actually, what Ice suggests is what I've been in support of as well, and this would condense the articles so they do not read as narratives (which they currently do). Their lengths are currently more overwhelming than useful since they contain so many extraneous details. I would estimate the condensing of an article for a main character such as Nick or Monroe would reduce the lengthiness by at least 80%-- which would make them more readable and more useful, having relevant information grouped together rather than in chronological order. <span style="font-family:linux libertine o, times; font-variant:small-caps">Bob the WikipediaN (talk • contribs) 13:26, July 22, 2013 (UTC)

This one hasn't gotten a lot of activity, but let's get rid of the episode headlines. Do we keep season headlines? Let's see how it works.-- 16:32, August 8, 2013 (UTC)


 * Can we keep the episode headlines on Nick's page, at least until I've finished all the episodes?  Dragonfighter1 (talk) 17:25, August 8, 2013 (UTC)
 * Every rule has an exception. Sure!-- 17:27, August 8, 2013 (UTC)
 * Keep the season headline for sure. We should start with the 8 main characters for now and keep the episode headlines on characters until they're finished being written.


 * With Volume 1 having wrapped up, I've expanded the article on Maya, the most complex character of the comic series to date. Using the biographical format instead of the episodic format, and leaving out trivial non-supporting details, the article seems to be a reasonable length rather than super-lengthy like it would otherwise have been. This is the sort of format I'd like to start seeing more of around the wiki. Granted, 22 episodes condensed into biography format will be longer than 5 comic issues condensed into a biography, but you get the general idea, anyway. Feedback? <span style="font-family:linux libertine o, times; font-variant:small-caps;font-size:150%">Bob the WikipediaN (talk • contribs) 01:28, September 13, 2013 (UTC)

That looks good but I think it would be best to have an example of this using a main character from the show. If you or anyone else has time to do it on a user space page that would be best in my opinion.


 * The problem, as I see it, with taking this approach to the major characters is that most of them have NO backstory: Nick was apparently orphaned at 12; Sean Renard fled Europe with his mother at a young age; Monroe became a Wieder Blutbad at some time; Rosalee was a Jay addict; Hank was married several times to various women, one was called Natalie; Juliette had a boyfriend named Dale Armstead: Adalind?? Wu?? Over 44 episodes a summary for Nick would read:


 * Detective Nick Burkhardt is plunged into the Grimm world with the impending death of his Aunt Marie. As he finds his feet in this world he is takes possession of a key in which his role is in preventing others from gaining possession of it, since he has no idea of its use or value. He also temporarily holds another artefact known as the Coins of Zakynthos, another item that he retains to prevent others from possessing them. His main role is maintaining the status quo between Wesen and Humans, whilst preveting humans from discovering the Wesen World. He has taken upon himself the role of arbitrator, Judge and executioner in intra-Wesen disputes. This has caused various factions within the Wesen community to ally with him, or to become his implacable foes.


 * Not really what I see as suitable for a Wiki. Dragonfighter1 (talk) 02:14, September 13, 2013 (UTC)
 * Most characters I'm sure would be based on their appearances since we don't know much of a back story for many of them.